Nanny justifing shouting, snappy, moody stressed behaviour with children...!!

[knakered]

hi Have had a great nanny for the past year -- it has gone really well until the start of the new year. She screams and snaps at the children and when tackled justfies it as OK as she is trying to disciplne them at a difficult time of the day and that she has seen me shout...

my response has been that 2 wrongs dont make a right, that she is paid to be professonal and employ appropriate techniques that are non aggressive.

I feel a bit compromised here as I do shout which I try hard not to do and that it is different for parents (??IS IT??) - that I would never shout at someone elses child or at a work colleague in my professional capacity -- but am I skating on thin ice here??

at then end of our discussions which have gone on for weeks now I have had to enforce a request that she does not shout at my children...that the job discription requires that she does nt scream she has agreed to that on Friday
but I am still left with doubts as I feel concerned that she persisted to defend her moody shouty snappy behaviour and although she has finally agreed to stop shouting wrt her job description - I dont think that she agrees with it and wonder if she has control.

Disrespectful for leaving your make up out?

My DD was pulled up by her arm and ended up with her arm in a pot.

That is unacceptable.

PLease don't do anything else to try an dmake this work.

She has to go.

She shouts and screams at your kids.

She is physical rough with your baby.

She tells you you should clean up your bathroom.

She has got to go!

I have had a few nannies and now my children are older I have a chilminder. From people I know and from talking to nannies and parents, I have to say that having the right childcare is crucial in being able to work the whole work/children thing. You need to be able to walk out of the door and not worry for one bit during the day. If you are even slightly concerned then you need to change the set up (either by changing the carer or by having a conversation that clears the air and a new set of rules + regular appraisals for you both). I once had a nanny for only THREE WEEKS who was appalling and horrible to my children. 6 years on, they still talk about her! Without wanting to scare you, it matters and you HAVE to get this right. Do you know other nannies well enough to talk to them about her, or parents who have nannies who might have heard what the others think? In my experience, good nannies are tremendous and are the first people to notice another nanny/carer being unprofessional (this is how I found out about my appalling one - a nanny called me). Talk to her, talk carefully to others and make your decision based on how you feel in your gut and how happy your children are. Get the childcare right and it all falls into place beautifully. Get it wrong and you will all be unhappy. There are wonderful people out there who will be professional and good and if you have to change, it really is not the end of the world.

This may sound a bit random but has she changed her contraceptive pill? I had problems with mine and went onto Microgynon and it turned me into the pyscho bitch from hell. I was irritable, bad tempered and quite frankly, I wouldn't have employed me! Luckily my boss was aware I was having girly problems and suggested going back to the doctors. Another change of pill and I was back to my old self. Having spoken to a few other people I've found out this was a common side affect of this particular pill and not one people would neccessarily recognise themselves. If she was good up until recently then there is obviously a reason but if she doesn't change then I think you need to give her a warning. Evreyone can have off days where they are a little ratty but if she only has all 4 for an hour then I think she should be able to cope by organising herself and remembering she is being paid to give the best possible care to your little ones.

"and that she has seen me shout..."

Excuse me, but where does this rediculous bit of logic come from. If my boss shows up late everyday, that does not entitle me to do the same. I am paid to do a job, and if I think my boss is slacking off abit, it does not entitle me to do the same.

For example, the project I am on at work involves lots of people doing lots of international lon haul (ish) travel. My boss get's to travel business class. I don't. It has never occurred to me to go book a business class ticket and say "well, you do it".

She is your employee, and she does not seem to understand that.

I think your nanny has reached her shelf life, to be honest. I think she had gotten sloppy because she has burned out. I think she took your job because she needed an income, and not because she really wanted to be a nanny. And after six moths or so of hanging out with a one year old, she is in over her head.

I agree that it is time to find another nanny.

We recently had a change of nannies. The old one had gotten quite shouty and was two strict with the kids. New nanny has been with us about a month, and this morning I realise that the DCs run off with her to go get dressed. I get them up, when old nanny would appear, they both would put a up a big fuss and want to stay with me. This morning when it occurred to me that they were having a fuss because they did not want to go with old nanny (and not because they didn't want to get dressed) it made me a bit that I continued to send them off every day with a nanny they perhaps were not happy with.

An update....had the most horrible day. We are going skiing on Thurs and were taking our nanny with us. I was trying to work through the logistics of how we could make time for her to ski everyday, manage her days in lieu (as over weekend, and bank holidays)etc as well as cover the babys nap which is the only reason we need her there.

However I just got challenged with a load of inflexible demands from her. I suggested that she have every morning off to ski and then come back for 1pm to over see the babys nap. She decided that she didnt want to do that as she didnt want to ski on her own and suggested that my Mum should come back to look after the baby in the afternoons?? - there were a whole series of demands and challenges that I could nt accomodate and when I thought it through along with the recent tension I thougt I really dont need this demanding person impacting my holiday....so I called her on Fri (it was her day off) to say that we wanted some family time and didnt need her to go. I thought it was good to give her as much notice as possible ie on the Fri so that she had time to make the best of her Easter break (we are going ths Thurs).

On sat night I drafted an email titled "bits and bobs for Mon - nothing urgent"...which was a very supportive/positive note about us getting back on track, how I was concerned about her, as her sunny disposition had disappeared and some logistics for the week as I woudl not see her Mon am as I had to leave for work early. I sent a timed text on Sunday - just to alert her that there was a non urgent bits and bobs handover notes on email for Mon am.

Today she came in raging and accused me of "harrasment" on her days off for contacting her as above on her day off. I said that the Fri call was to give her as much notice as possible (I am sure if I waited till Monday I would have been told off for that too) I said that the text and email did not have to be read at the weekend but I needed to let her know to look online on Mon am both said non urgent bits and bobs for Mon she said that this ruined her weekend and amounted to harrassment. ??

We have now decided to make her redundant. We will give her a months notice from tomorrow....my husband insists that we encourage her to work her notice - i feel that the relationship has broken down and would prefer to cobble together childcare over the next few weeks......so its over...and I do feel liberated!!

knakered - sorry I can't stay long but is she really redundant? are you not planning to replace her?

read this thread with increasing horror and disbelief.... how could you let a nanny (?anyone?) treat you and your dcs like this???? madness.
please dont give her a bland / false reference. she will be off to terrororise other families / small children if you do. do you plan to ask the older childre for their views about her, now that they know she wont punish them for being honest?

knakered, no matter how hard your childcare arangements will be until you get a new nanny, you know it is going to be far better than being harrased by the nanny from hell.

harpsichordcarrier...I am freelance consultant and have no projects scheduled after end of April...so will be doing the job myself...what other option do I have its either sacking or redundancy??

If someone I employed to care for my children attempted to justify the fact that she screams and shouts at them, she would be sacked for gross misconduct.

How can you trust her to care for your children when you are not around, when she is perfectly happy to scream and shout at them when you are?

If someone I employed to care for my children attempted to justify the fact that she screams and shouts at them, she would be sacked for gross misconduct.

How can you trust her to care for your children when you are not around, when she is perfectly happy to scream and shout at them when you are?

I agree Taweret...I think this is what i find so hard.. that I have listened to her justify this for weeks with me arguing back with her and the only progress that was made was when I demanded that she doesnt shout I think that she has an issue with boundaries, stepping down and stepping back to again perspective ..she is so keen to prove herself right/get her own way that she doesnt see the illogocality of her argument -- so I resorted to pulling rank....ie demanding that she doesnt shout at my children

I agree with Harpsi. Do you realise that if you make her redundant you can not hire another nanny for two years without first offering the job to her?

I too would sack on gross misconduct. And I would be flabbergasted at her selfishness regarding the ski holiday. I willl gladly cover afternoon naps if you will pay to take me skiing with you. And I will not shout at the child or drap her round by her arm.

I also would not want her to work her notice. (and I probably wouldn't offer her 4 weeks of pay on account of the fact that I was sacking her and not making her redundant)

This is difficult. But ask yourself: has something changed in the dynamic of the relationship this could be change in your family circumstance or her personal life? Do you rate her as a nanny enough to work it out with her? Has the trust broken down beyond repair? Does she feel able to come to you if she feels there's an issue with the children that she's struggling with?

You need to talk some more, as it sounds as though you've not resolved it to either of your satisfaction. Tell her that you don't know what to think and you are concerned that this impasse will continue unless you can get to the bottom of it and this is not an option. Ask her if she still wants to be a nanny to your children and be accepting if she says no, then agree her exit strategy and look for another nanny who wants to look after your children.

cant agree that the op should be so very concerned about her employee's personal happiness when nanny has been rude / arrogant / aggressive / wholly unprofessional. nanny is taking the p * * s

I would give her her notice. Her behaviour is unacceptable. Demanding what she wants on YOUR holiday??? Expecting your Mum to come back so she can have a good time? I wouldn't encourage her to work out her notice as I would be worried she'll take her anger out on your children. If you can scrape by without her, I would get shot of her and I wouldn't give her a reference either.

Get her out of there asap. You do not want her in your house with your children when she is on notice. You will get very stressed by it and she will be difficult to have around. The bad atmosphere will reach the children. Much better to get some interim cover/throw yourself on friends' mercy etc than drag it out. when these things happen you need to act swiftly and with firmness. I do not think you should make her redundant (for reasons others state). Either way, whatever your method for doing it, you are better to pay her off and get her out of there.
If you are a freelance consultant you might be better finding an older childminder locally who has some flexibility. While it means getting the children to her house etc, it can be easier in the long run if you find it difficult having people in your house. GOOD LUCK. make the most of the holiday!

Don't make her redundant. Sack her. Pay off her notice period, if you have to. Look up the Department for Business website if you need to check the procedures.

You need to get a different nanny I think. It's not acceptable, and is irrelevant that you shout! It sounds like she is not enjoying the work, and if she isn't then the kids aren't getting the best care. Give her notice and sort something else out for the kids - they do not deserve to be shouted at. (I guess you could also try stopping shouting yourself, but that is up to you - as I said, irrelevant to her behaviour)

Just read the full thread - DONT make her redundant - she needs to be sacked. For gross misconduct (shouting) OR for some other significant reason (break down in the relationship - i.e. accusing you of harassing her, making unreasonable and unsustainable demands on holiday and talking to you rudely, behaving unprofessionally)

And don't let her near your children. She was grumpy before, what will she be like now? Suss something else out on a temporary basis and dismiss her asap. ONce it's done, you will feel really relieved!

Yes sack her! Her attitude & behaviour stinks.
Go and enjoy your skiing holiday.

Don't make her redundant fGS - gross misconduct and please state this on further references. They way she treated your 18m old is actually really disturbing

Yup, sack her, don't make her redundant.

She sounds like a right loon who should be nowhere near children or, for that matter, adults.

This ranting about being contacted at the weekend is ridiculous. I feel she might also have ranted had you told her about the holiday on Monday evening when you saw her. You couldn't win that one either way.

And if a phone call on a Friday and a text on Sunday from you 'ruined her weekend' she must hate her job. Good riddance, I think you've done the right thing.

Happy skiing!

Had an idea -

Make it part of the contract for everyone employing a nanny that if they are sacked they go that day with no money.

This is outrageous! She is bullying you.

Tell her to piss off and not come back. Sometimes kids just have to come first and this is most definitely one of them.