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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Help me to get my Mother's Help back on track, or to dismiss her without confrontation

44 replies

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 11:46

Some of you will have seen my thread here, where my MH disappointed me.

There have been a few other incidents that suggest to me that she's not bothering about doing the job properly, (see my last postings on the thread), and I suspect she's a bit fed-up of the job.

We do chat, and I thought we had a good relationship, but I do feel very let down by last weeks performance.

So tonight I have got to get to the nub of this, and decide with her wether she can do better, or if it's time to move on. I don't want her doing school holiday days with a 'can't be bothered' attitude.

I know she likes babies & toddlers, and ds is 8, I think that might be at the root of the problem.

How do I start this conversation?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

McDreamy · 10/03/2008 11:47

How long has she been with you?
Could you start with a "how are you finding the job?'
"Is it what you expected it to be?"

Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 11:50

18 months or so. It's gone downhill over the last 2 or 3 months, and I suppose I let it go a bit, assuming the odd lazy incident was jusdt a one-off. bu they are becomiong more frequent.

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marmadukescarlet · 10/03/2008 11:51

CM, what a pita.

Did she ever give an explaination as to why he was sitting crying on his own? (did she not hear him? Is he not allowed back downstairs after ?o'clock? This would bother me more than an untidy kitchen as it shows a lack of empathy.

I am the most rubbish appeaser when it comes to APs so can be of little practical help. You need to wait for MrsR or Elusis (to name but a few) for sorting these situations!

Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 11:55

marmaduke. apparently she had told ds to go back to bed 3 times before, this was the 4th time he'd got up. dh thinks she was stood at the foot of stairs talking to ds as we came in the house (he was in front of me).

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Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 11:56

but I think she could at least have wipedf round the kitchen tops somtime between tea at 6, and 10:20 p.m.

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bossykate · 10/03/2008 11:57

Is she an employee and has she been with you more than 1 year?

fwiw, i have had the most success with students in a similar role to the one you require.

bossykate · 10/03/2008 11:58

ok. i think in your shoes i would start the dismissal procedure, i.e. give her a verbal warning - then she either shapes up, or you proceed to a written warning on the road to dismissal.

bossykate · 10/03/2008 11:59

how very stressful for you. having someone performing as poorly as this really is a hindrance rather than a help!

Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 11:59

she is a past-time employee. I operate PAYE for her, she's worked for me doing between 6 and 12 hrs per week for 18 months.

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bossykate · 10/03/2008 12:02

i'm not a lawyer or hr expert but i am an employer so have researched this for myself...

if she had been with you less than 1yr, you could get rid for any reason.

however, sacking someone who has been with you more than one year is a more difficult prospect, hence my previous mention of starting the warning/dismissal procedure.

stealthsquiggle · 10/03/2008 12:03

Definitely need to give her a warning - but have a Plan B if she promptly walks out...

Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 12:17

stealthsquiggle, TBH if she decides not to continue I think I might be relieved, altho' next weeks school hols might be awkward (I've already got a local agency lined up in case).

But I don't want it to be confrontational (partly I'm a coward, partly cos ds will be in).

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blueshoes · 10/03/2008 12:32

clumsymum, good that you are giving her a chance to pull up her socks.

I would say focus on the specifics first, and then see if there is any improvement. I would hold off on comments about attitude or slipping standards until the next meeting, if there is one.

So on the crying incident, ask why ds was crying when you came back and what she did to comfort him and why she wasn't doing it when you got home.

Ask whether she noticed the spill on the carpet. And your expectation that she should wipe it up.

Ditto the kitchen mess.

Since you are on the brink of getting rid of her anyway, I don't see any issue in being quite blunt about letting her know that you are watching her and have been noticing these things. You are picky because you have a right to be and need her to know your expectations. She might decide this is not for her anyway.

My sympathies. I had a cleaner who was ripping me off. And I replaced her with an aupair rather than speak to her about her slackening off. It is not easy.

bossykate · 10/03/2008 12:37

what do you mean by "confrontation"? of course it will be a confrontation

do you mean you don't want her to react aggressively? if so, well, you won't be able to control how she behaves, only yourself!

imho, the best way to approach this will be to plan well. what outcome do you want? if you want to get rid of her, then you need to give her a warning. you will need to plan what you want to say in advance.

do not give her the opportunity to explain or rationalise - you must simply repeat that the current behaviour is unacceptable and give specific instructions regarding the behaviour you want to see with a timeframe etc etc. if she decides to leave immediately then all to the good. if she behaves badly towards your child as a result of the conversation then potentially you have the grounds to dismiss her for gross misconduct.

if what you really want is to dismiss her, then i recommend you start a thread under employment issues where someone like flowerybeanbag will see it.

hth and good luck.

fridayschild · 10/03/2008 12:49

I agree with blueshoes. You need to be clear that the standard is not what you require. This is your opinion so she cannot argue with it. You should say what the problem is, tell her how this makes you feel (disappointed in her, worried for your DS) and identify what needs to be done to resolve this.

You should aim to be clear and firm. This is not necessarily confrontational. If you want to take an action responsibility on yourself, such as a job spec/ checklist then that's up to you, but if you feel she should know the job then there's no need.

This all sounds very work-like, but sometimes that helps, to think about how you would manage a member of staff at work, and then ask yourself why you are not doing the same at home.

Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 12:52

Fridays..

I do want it to be worklike, that actually makes it easier.

One reason I'm unhappy about starting this conversation is because we have tended to become a bit too chatty over the last 18 mths, and I need to re-establish the employer/employee relationship.

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bossykate · 10/03/2008 15:01

yes, exactly, it must be just dealing dealing with a poor performer in the office!

eleusis · 10/03/2008 15:34

I can sympathise for sure. My XN (x-nanny) was not the tidiest of sorts. When I went in to clean her room in amatter of hours before new one arrived and it was a bloody tip. We are talking bits of paper and plastic all of the carpet. It was not hoovered for ages (if ever), dark small spots of God knows what all over. It was horrible. I'm convinced the carpet cleaning man who showed up was an angel sent from God because no normal mortal could have cleaned that crap like he did. In her last days she was very short tempered with the kids, it was an obvious chore to show up for work, she would give bad reports on most days. And, DD can be a hard work. But, my DS is an agel so when I get reports about him being bad either he is sick or something is not right.

I feel guilty about feeling this way, but I'm glad she's gone. She is genuinely a nice girl. I like her as a person, but she didn't have the patience of stamina that is required to look after my kids on a very full time basis (60+ hours per week).

Oh I hope I don't regret typing all of this...

I do think that nannies/aupairs/MHs have a shelf life. They get burned out and they stop caring. I suppose this is true about lots of careers. But I think when they do burn out and stop caring it is time to move on.

I would lay down a written warning for her neglect. And I would most certainly want to know what my 8 year old boy was at the top of the stairs crying.

Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 15:41

Thinking about it, she's been talking to me recently about weekends (48 hours at a time, all paid) that she's been doing for a very wealthy family.

I suspect that what I pay seems like very small beer, and she can't be bothered with it any more.

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BeauLocks · 10/03/2008 15:50

Interesting point about the fact that she's working all weekend. I interviewed a nanny ages ago and she sounded very keen and her references were good. However, she worked every weekend, all weekend, for a family where the mother had been paralysed in a dreadful crash and couldn't therefore manage her children as she had done before. I asked her how on earth she could manage full time for us (often long long hours) and work all weekend (including getting up in the night) for this other family without having a break all week. She reckoned she could do it but I knew she couldn't. She was getting paid a lot of money by the other family (through the other driver's insurance) and she seemed to think that the money was enough to make it workable (). She ended up working for one of dh's colleague's family and she last 6 weeks.

As always, I agree with Eleusis. I think she makes a very good point about the shelf life.

Original poster

clumsymum · 10/03/2008 16:04

I'm now just wondering where she is.

She was picking up ds from school today, and should be back with him by now.
This is the other thing, she does tend to run errands or cart him about without just letting me know.
I guess she must have collected him, or school would have called me. I was waiting to nip out to the post and tesco.

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blueshoes · 10/03/2008 21:43

clumsymum, I hope your ds is accounted for by now. Does your MH have a mobile/

Original poster

clumsymum · 11/03/2008 10:32

Thanks yes, I rang her at 4:30. She needed to get her car tax, so and her partner (who I've never met) picked up ds and carted him across the city to get that done, dropped in at her flat and gave him a ham sandwich to keep him going, then she brought him home for about 5:30.

All fine and dandy, but a) I would like to know where my son is
b) this Monday he happens to be shattered cos he went to cub camp over the weekend. He really needed to come home and chill, as well as look at the homework he didn't have chance to do.

Perhaps I'm being unreasonable, she didn't know he'd be sooo tired etc, but I would like to be asked before she carts ds off doing her errands.

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lullabyloo · 11/03/2008 10:43

she doesn't sound too great on any front tbh
You pay her to put your family's needs first..not hers

marmadukescarlet · 11/03/2008 10:43

cm so her and her partner or just her partner?

Either way my thoughts are if she had her partner around it does not take 2 people to tax a car, you can tax your car at any main PO was there not one closer? But also you are paying her to look after your child not run her own errands.

After a day at school (even without cub camp, which actually surely she should have known about if she works with your children 5 days a week) my DD is exhausted and does not want to trudge around and queue in the PO.

Why did she not inform you in advance that this would be happening?

I think you are going to have to get rid, she seems to have stopped focussing on what your DS needs and is being selfish.

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