Hope you will all watch BBC1 8.00pm tonight

[ThePrisoner]

"Whistleblower" - seems an Ofsted inspector isn't happy with inspections. I've seen bits of this on the news this evening. It's an investigation into the childcare industry.

An Ofsted report does not replace visiting in person, talking with other parents who use the facility, general gut instincts.
Is an Ofsted report worthless... well, it's probably better than nothing. But it needs to be just part of the decision making process, and it needs to be kept in mind that Ofsted are looking at Paperwork and doing some limited observation of the children and staff interaction/activities. It is a snapshot, so may not reflective of a typical day.

An Outstanding report is great... but as Katymac points out, it is alot about paperwork, so a provider could be Outstanding for paperwork and procedures, but may fail on caring for children's emotional needs (which I don't think Ofsted check - do they?).

Ok - thanks!
The nursery has been recommended by many - and I know someone who used to work there. I visited many times before he started - and I do get a good feeling from the place - mainly because the ladies in the baby room are all like nannas!!
It's such a worry though isn't it!
Seems to make a mockery out of the Ofsted thing.

Taking to ex-staff members is an ideal way of finding out about a place. If they say it's great, you know it must be. Ex-Staff far more likely to say it's not great, due to x, y z... so sounds like you've found a great place for your LO.

I'm just so depressed about the whole thing.

Really, really depressed.

Takes a lot to get me down, but that programme was just - I dunno, awful

This is what happens when the drive to get women back to work is not supported by an adequate system for paying for childcare.

God help us all

I think they should check emotional needs, its more important that the child is happy than paperwork up to date - well maybe not with OFSTED.

Not sure if I could cope with them coming every year Katy, its bad enough them coming every 3 yrs, you get over one and have 3 yrs to improve and get over first inspection, its so stressful even when you have got your policies, attendance register etc up to date and signed by parents. I'm going to have to borrow a child as it is as work is non-existent around here. I have one mindee after school.

I missed the report/programme tonight, I have worked in a nursery as a bank nursery nurse, the ratios were adhered to all the time, most of the staff were good with the children (there were a couple whose hearts just werent in it). I was not left alone with children to do toilet run/nappy changing even though I had showed them my crb enhanced check certificate that I have for cming. On the whole I felt it is a good nursery and has quite a few awards for various things, I would have been happy to have left my child there.

Oh M2L - did you ever work - or hear about this one??
It's not too far away from you.........I checked out where you are from on your profile thingy!!

No, not heard of this nursery, I live in East Manchester (Tameside) so its an hour's drive from me.

I went back to childminding as I couldn't afford to pay one for my lad (now 5). I mind a 4 yr old and have been trying to get more work for last 6 mths but to no avail. Too many childminders in my area. Can't afford to go out to work so am going to stick at it.

Have to check my profile thingy, where does it say I live?!

Pre-Ofsted, when Social Services used to do our inspections, we had an annual visit. The same person visited me for several years - she always did a thorough "tick-list" check (safety features etc)., and we had a civilised conversation about what I did with the children and so on. She would remember that, perhaps, I'd got the same children as previously, or maybe a new sibling, and it was not the scary situation that we tend to have with Ofsted. I would sometimes see my inspector at childminding training or meet-ups, which would help give her a better picture of how I worked. She was still able to remain professional during my inspections.

I hate the fact that Ofsted come for 3/4 hours every 3 years or so, and judge what we are like based on what is seen in that time, and on how well we keep our paperwork in order. How can that possibly be a sensible system?

We get given a grade based on how well we can prove ourselves on paper - there's no judgement on kindness and caring towards the children. I so wish that parents knew that being "outstanding" doesn't mean you are necessarily a loving and caring childminder, and that a "satisfactory" childminder could be a Mother Earth (who is rubbish at writing policies).

I just watched the programme, and tbh it's not really that shocking, is it?

The first nursery just had a lot of young, inexperienced/untrained staff - they weren't abusive towards the children, just short/rough with them, which I think is to be expected under the circumstances. The owner was very profit-driven and the side of the nursery shown to visitors was different to reality. I doubt this nursery is exceptional.

The second nursery was just understaffed.

I read an article about a study recently that looked at the relationship between the quality of childcare and parental satisfaction with that care. Basically it found that poor quality nanny/childminder care = dissatisfied parents. But poor quality nursery care wasn't so closely related to parental satisfaction - maybe nurseries are better at presenting an image to parents that differs from reality?

When they were showing Mark Warner, I thought to myself "wasn't Madeleine MCCann at a Mark Warner resort" and then on cam ethe McCAnns. And it made me very angry and sad on their behalf. It makes me wonder if it was Mark Warner who was negligent the night Madeleine was abducted.

(although I don't know if their particular resort had the nanny listening service)

The whole Mark Warner thing was awful! Why take your toddler on holiday just to dump them in a nursery all day? It takes small children time to settle into a new surrounding with strangers. And then taking those little children on a speed boat without enough safety helmets

I don't mind the concept. I assume most people drop the kids in the creche while they say go for a run. Then pick them up and play for the afternoon. Then go out to eat after kids in bed sort of thing. Nothing wrong with that. I don't think the kids spend the whole day in the creche -- at least mine wouldn't. Of course I wouldn't be causght dead at a Mark Warner resort since Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

But, there is most certainly something wrong with illegal employees, no helmuts in the boat, unqualified carers, and so on...

Yes mark warner was awful...

BUT the only people responsible for leaving madeline alone in her hotel room are her parents

no, i don't think you can rest assured if your school or nursery scored outstanding.
my kids have just been taken out of the worst school experience ever, it was truly abysmal - teachers constanly not showing up, supply teachers all over the place, no homework, school couldn't get it together to send reading books home, kids would hit teachers and nothing would be done, teachers would look at parents with contempt if they asked any questions, year 6 kids each year left school unable to read, bright kids routinely ignored or helped teach the others etc etc.
That school got 'good with outstanding features' in its last ofsted.

all my faith in ofsted is completely finished.

and it'd be really great not to have yet another mumsnet mcann bashing thread .they have been through enough so lets just leave it.

watched this last night on iplayer
cant beleive the childminder bit, it looks like she just sat at home and the cert came, it didnt say you need a crb, doctors notes etc and that ofsted come out again in x mths after you register to check you with the children and to make sure actions have been done (ie safty gates, firegrauds, first aid cert)

yes dmo, i picked up on that too, it made us look like a right bunch of cowboys

RahRahRachel - I agree totally that the programmes nurseries were not that shocking - in my experience (temping in 8 different nurseries) the reality is unfortunately much much worse.

If I'd have gone undercover in 2 of the nurseries , the staff would have been in prison now