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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Hope you will all watch BBC1 8.00pm tonight

43 replies

ThePrisoner · 05/03/2008 18:34

"Whistleblower" - seems an Ofsted inspector isn't happy with inspections. I've seen bits of this on the news this evening. It's an investigation into the childcare industry.

OP posts:

nannyL · 05/03/2008 18:36

I will

have seen it (well similar) first hand anyway so not at all surprised at what they have found TBH

McDreamy · 05/03/2008 18:37

It's not on here for me but even so I don't think i could bring myself to watch it

MaryBS · 05/03/2008 18:41

I gather its going to include the nursery at Cambourne, Cambs (which is now shutting), where that little girl died

nannynick · 05/03/2008 18:45

Doubt it will raise anything new... it's about nurseries as far as I am aware. Have set the video.

tigersmum · 05/03/2008 18:49

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7278514.stm

Bubble99 · 05/03/2008 19:57

Will it cover childminders as well?

nannyL · 05/03/2008 21:04

it vaguely covered childminders..... hoe easy it was to become a childminder.... even in a hosue with no fire gaurd / stair gate or even TOYS!

i liked the statistic at the beginning of

"of the 700 nursarys / childminders the ofstead inspector and her inspector friends have visited, only about 5 would they send their own chidlren to"

not that surprised.... only 1 preschool so far that i have been to (i have been to a fair few but no where near 700 or even near 100, maybe 20ish) i would only send my own (hypothetical) child to 1!

laura032004 · 05/03/2008 21:09

nannyL - why? What's been wrong with the pre-schools? I've been feeling quite secure about DS1's preschool. It recently had a good Ofsted, has nice staff, I've done sessions as a helper, and all seemed fine, and DS1 (nearly 4) is verbal enough to tell me if he's not happy (and he runs in every day ). Am I lucky, and so far he's had good pre-schools, or could I still be missing something?

nannyL · 05/03/2008 21:13

because ofstead inspectors have targets to meet and have to approve a certain amount or get reprimanded

ofstead inspectors have targets apparently!

looneytune · 05/03/2008 21:28

I must say the target thing really shocked me! My experience of inspection time was that they looked at pretty much everything and were looking for problems. Having said that, from being on Mumsnet etc. it does appear that the things they look out for are more like a tick box system i.e. how kids dry their hands, how often towels are changed etc.

nannynick · 05/03/2008 22:16

Pre-Schools (sessional groups - what us old-timers knew as Playgroups) are often quite good. Why? Because they are held in a community centre hall, thus usually only one room (plus a kitchen) which means that the staff are always with the children. The staff generally are more mature, typically parents themselves whose children have previously attended the playgroup. These groups can often find it a struggle to survive, but still many plough on, providing pre-school education via a learning through play ethos. There are many good pre-schools around, it is best to ask other parents for their views about which groups are good in your area.

KatyMac · 05/03/2008 22:19

Nice Balance programme I thought ?

nannynick · 05/03/2008 22:27

Given that (to me at least) the issues were regarding Ofsted... why didn't they get a job at Ofsted. Would have been far more entertaining

paddingtonbear1 · 05/03/2008 22:27

I watched, but I'm not sure I would have if dd had still been in nursery - I would have felt v bad but still needing to work! As it was we were v happy with the standard of care at dd's nursery. I have heard of problems with other nurseries in the area though, including ones which were supposed to be 'sought after'.

nannynick · 05/03/2008 22:42

The one thing it did try to highlight was the ratio issue. It's something I've known about for years - the National Standards are not clear as to how the ratio within Full Day Care (nursery to those not up with Ofsted lingo) should be applied.
My view is that it should be per-room... as it's a bit much to expect someone to be supervising a child they can't see or hear, due to there being a physical wall between them!
SureStart (or whoever it is responsible for these) in my view really should re-write the National Standards, putting all the documents together (as currently there are revisions to the Standards) and making it much clearer what is meant by things. In particular: (Full Day Care National Standards)
"2.9 There is a minimum of 2 adults on duty" - do they mean that as the nursery as a whole, or per room/group?
"2.12 The adult:child ratios relate to staff time available to work directly with children. Additional staff and management resources may be required to undertake management tasks, prepare meals, for domestic tasks and to maintain premises and equipment." - no mention here of if the ratio is as a nursery as a whole, or per Group (a nursery can consist of several groups - group size can not exceed 26 - see 2.3)

When I temped in nurseries, I often found that ratios were being done as the nursery as a whole, not per room/group. Changing this could help a lot I feel, as then there would always be at least two members of staff in a room at any given time. However, cost is an issue... it would mean more staff, so more cost, so more fees for parents.

KatyMac · 05/03/2008 22:45

I fully intend in my nursery for this to be per room

I think both you & I have discussed having less than 2 people with a group of children to be unacceptable - I have been laughed at by nursery manager for stateing (should that have the 'e' in it?)this

KatyMac · 05/03/2008 22:46

I have built in extra staff so that even toilet breaks can be covered easily - again this has been ridiculed

nannynick · 05/03/2008 22:50

I was laughed at by an Ofsted inspection team manager for stating this (don't think it has an e).
To me it makes perfect sense, that each ROOM is considered to be a GROUP. And that the National Stanards apply PER GROUP. So 2 adults (wonder what their definition of adult is) on duty.
Yes, think you and I have talked about this before... we are both on the same brainwave... unfortunately we seem to be in the minority view.

KatyMac · 05/03/2008 22:52

Well I told OFSTED that I thought it was neglegent that they only came every 3 yrs this afternoon.....& that I thought they should come yearly (as a minimum)

DKMA · 05/03/2008 22:52

Didn't see the program but am feeling a bit pleased that lo's baby room is staffed 2 per baby. All the different groups have their own building and are staffed accordingly.

Are the ofsted reports of any value then do you think??

DKMA · 05/03/2008 22:53

Oh god - that was meant to say 2 babies to 1 member of staff!!
It's late!

KatyMac · 05/03/2008 22:54

'2 per baby'? or 2 babies per staff member?

KatyMac · 05/03/2008 22:54

x post

Reports have some value - & indicate where there might be problems not where everything is OK

DKMA · 05/03/2008 22:56

If lo's nursery scored 'outstanding' on every aspect - can I rest assured (a bit)?

KatyMac · 05/03/2008 22:58

As an outstanding childminder I'm afraid to say not necessarily

It's all to do with attitude - it could be Outstanding because they did every bit of paperwork & procedure right

Do the staff cuddle the children & listen to them & enjoy playing with them? I think that is the most important

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