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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Old nanny returning from maternity leave with baby! Help

63 replies

ziopin · 28/02/2008 09:54

This is a very long running story, but my old nanny has been off on maternity leave and is due to come back next month.

Originally I said that she could come back with the baby at the end of her leave, but then decided against it. She took this very well, and said that she would arrange childcare for the baby when she came back to work.

Having spoken with her last week, she has only arranged childcare for 2 days, and wants to bring the baby to work for the other 3. She suggests that we give it a trial for a couple of months, and if it doesn't work out she'll leave (no hard feelings)

I am not happy about this, but should I give it a trial just to be fair?

I currently have a lovely nanny, who is doing her maternity cover. I could lose her, and then find myself without a nanny if things dont work out with old nanny and baby.

Help!

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PotPourri · 28/02/2008 09:59

Hmmm, not sure where she stands on this, as you are her employer effectively. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along.

Why do you not want her to bring her baby? Is it because she might not give yours full attention?? Just wondered. Just thinking that it could be good for your DC to mix with others during the day. I am really glad that my CM has other children as the kids love seeing them.

However, if you feel really strongly that it is not going to work, you might be best standing your ground and saying no, your terms or not at all (get some 'legal' postition advice first though - hoepfully from the fountain of knowledge that is mumsnet)

Original poster

ziopin · 28/02/2008 10:16

I should add that I have had loads of problems with this nanny. If I knew how to show old threads I would!

But now, feel like I might chicken out!

OP posts:

PotPourri · 28/02/2008 10:27

Right, leaving all the problems aside, I think the issue is going to be with her employment rights (and you shoudl not complicate with old issues that could/should have been dealt with at the time).

I have looked on teh following website http://www.taxingnannies.co.uk/inland-revenue/payroll-legislation/maternity-rights.aspx and the bottom of the page says:

"Rights and obligations when returning from maternity leave

Employees are expected and can expect to return to work at the end of their maternity leave period on the same terms and conditions as before. This means that a request to bring the nanny's baby to work can be refused. However, the employee does have the right to request part-time or flexible working and proper consideration has to be given to this request and only rejected on substantial grounds. "

So it looks like you are covered. She is not requesting flexible work (i.e. jsut working 2 days), she is asking to change her working terms adn conditions - i.e. bringing her baby along.

Therefore, I think you should say no on the basis that she is entitled to return to work on her existing terms and conditions, and you have no obligation to change or consider a change to those terms and conditions (noting that this is not a request for part time hours or other flexible working). Put it in writing to close it off.

PotPourri · 28/02/2008 10:27

Oh, link didn't work - try againwww.taxingnannies.co.uk/inland-revenue/payroll-legislation/maternity-rights.aspx

CarGirl · 28/02/2008 10:31

I think as you are legally covered stick to your guns and say I'm very sorry but I've thought very long and hard about it and I do not want another baby in the house whilst my children are being cared for. Perhaps put this is in writing so you cannot feel pressurised into allowing her to go ahead with a trial you do not want. Do you think your current nanny would work say 3 days per week if your old nanny then asks for flexible 2 days per week?

Presumably if you need full time care for your dc and you cannot find another nanny to do the part time hours then you would be able to turn that request down as well?

HarrietTheSpy · 28/02/2008 10:36

I don't think you have to agree to flexible working in this case. You would arguably have a very good case that your child needs continuity and not the disruption two different care givers could bring. I think you'll be fine saying no, but I would lay it out in a letter, as you indicated, so you'll be less likely to back down.

Ziopin I remember your earlier threads. Stick to your guns, I think this situation has the all the hallmarks of making you miserable, being stressful. Don't go there.

flowerybeanbag · 28/02/2008 10:38

Just say no, particularly if you want to keep current nanny! There's no way you are under any obligation to agree to it, that's a significant change in terms and conditions.

RahRahRachel · 28/02/2008 10:39

You've been complaining about this nanny for ages and you really like the new one - and now a perfect opportunity has arisen to get what you want. Why would you let her bring the baby if you don't want her to come back?

hatwoman · 28/02/2008 10:45

if you really like her and she was great then, if I were you, I'd give it a go. but (and this sounds more likely) you have reservations about her anyway then I wouldn;t.

If you do give it a go then you need to look very carefully into the legal situation. you have a nanny now employed under certian terms and conditions. as pp points out you are under no obligation to change those terms and conditions. however if you do change them - even for a trial period - how easy would it be for you to change them back? I don't know the answer to that, but it's something you need to be clear on. your verbal/informal agreement isn;t enough, imo,to proceed. you need to be sure she can't, legally speaking, challenge you if you want to revert to the original terms.

eleusis · 28/02/2008 10:47

Ziopin,

How shall I put this....

If you let that baby in your how for one minute you are letting the horrible horrible nanny walk all over you. Once youlet the baby in you will find it much harder to get rid of it. How much pain do you want to allow this woman to inflict upon you and your children???

You know what you need to do... don't you?!?!?

A big fat NO will do it. Have you got a new contract or are you operating under the old one.

Where is the temp nanny while this is going on? Have you let her go?

hatwoman · 28/02/2008 10:47

I also agree with fbb and rrr (but held back in the current mn climate and all ). If she's not great and she'd resign if you didn;t agree to change her terms and conditions (and the mat cover nanny is lovely) then isn;t it a bit of a no-brainer?

Original poster

ziopin · 28/02/2008 10:48

I know, I know. But I am such a wimp!

Please can somebody word it for me, so I dont sound like a complete bitch!

Thanks (I know I'm so pathetic!)

OP posts:

eleusis · 28/02/2008 10:49

eleusis · 28/02/2008 10:50

Right, here's your response:

No.

Original poster

ziopin · 28/02/2008 10:54

Oh I love you Eleusis. {smile] Wondered whether you'd be around to give me a good slapping

Should I put it in writing to her, want to be sure I dont trip myself up here.

OP posts:

PotPourri · 28/02/2008 10:55

He he at eleusis!

The phone converstation should go as follows:
"nasty nanny, I have considered your proposal to come back to work bringing nasty nanny baby for 3 days of the 5 day week. I have decided that I am not willing to change our arrangement to accomodate this. I will give you some time to look at your options and would like to hear from you ...e.g. Monday...confirming whether you still intend to return to work" Stick to that, and don't get drawn in. you are not obliged to change her terms adn conditions. She has not submitted a request for flexible working. This is NOT your problem, so do not get drawn in.

hatwoman · 28/02/2008 11:01

phone her up. say "I've been thinking about your return to work and we had a long discussion about it last night and I'm afraid we've decided that we don't think having [baby's name] here is going to work. We decided to have a nanny because we wanted someone who's able to devote all her energies to dcs and when we talked about it last night we realised that that's not changed."

it's then down to her to resign or find childcare.

PotPourri · 28/02/2008 11:02

Take notes of your discussion and what she says, time and everything.
And then on Monday or whatever date you have given her to decide, it gets closed off once and for all. Again, take notes adn times etc etc.

If she decides to come back full time as before without her baby, then you may have to abide by that. But it sounds like that will not work for her (let's face it, who wants to look after someone elses kids and have your child being looked after elsewhere - all a bit skewed!).

If she starts rumbling on about the part time bringing the baby etc, reiterate that you do not need to accomodate the baby, and are unwilling to, therefore if she is saying that she cannot resume her role under current terms, then you will have to accept her resignation.

Whatever the outcome, draft a letter which captures teh 2 above conversations - write it, retain a copy and post it registered post. (Mumsnet can read through draft for you at that stage).

A bit of effort up front here will have your lovely kids looked after by a lovely nanny. Letting this opportunity go will have a nasty nanny back in yoru house, with her sprog, running hte show and doing all the things that she did before - more agro in the long run.

Go on, wimp out of the stress and hassle of having to deal with her back in your life!!!

eleusis · 28/02/2008 11:03

I thin kit is appropriate to answer her question in what form she asks it. So, if she asks verbally, then respond verbally., It she gives you a formal written request to bring the baby. The reply in writing explaining that you are happy to continue under the terms of the existing contract, but you are not prepared to allow which are not yours into your house on a regular basis.

This girl/woman will not wish to be separated from her baby. And she will take every written statement you give her straight to CAB. She is vicious, and you should not trust her as far as you can throw her.

hatwoman · 28/02/2008 11:04

remember she is making a hoooooge request. no-one else gets to bring their baby to work. she is facing the decision that everyone else faces - work and find childcare or resign.

hatwoman · 28/02/2008 11:06

I don;t know the history - is she really that bad?

eleusis · 28/02/2008 11:06

I wouldn't even give her a decision period. Nothing has changed for you. You are continuing as you were. Has she given you written notice of what day she intends to return to work?

Just carry on under the old arrangement, when there was no baby. It is her job to sort out childcare.

Perhaps you could recommend lovely new nanny as a temp nanny for her child while she is looking after yours?

eleusis · 28/02/2008 11:06

Horrid. Indisputably.

PotPourri · 28/02/2008 11:07

Make sure you take notes of every conversation, keep them in a file. If she took you to a tribunal you would need them.

She sounds like a nasty piece of work (didn't see any of your earlier threads), so I agree that it is appropriate to respond to her by the means she raised her request. BUT, take notes - that is your evidence

hatwoman · 28/02/2008 11:07

but I think she has asked for this verbally. so z needs to say something.

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