How much should I expect from my nanny?

[winsterwoes]

Hello. I'm looking for some honest advice here - from either nannies or anyone with experience of having employed a nanny.

We have a nanny for our two children, she's been with us for a good few weeks now. It's our first time having this experience so it's all new!

When we interviewed her, she seemed amazing - decades of experience and tons of ideas about activities she could do with the children to help their learning and growth.
We agreed that she would do the standard nanny duties of children's laundry, meals, and other regular jobs (e.g. weekly or fortnightly).

Three days of the week she has both 1 and 3 year old, and two of the days she only has the baby (nursery drop off for older one, but not pick up). Baby still naps, and also on days with the older one she gives her 'quiet time', so all in all I personally think there's plenty of time she has to be planning, having a break, etc.

So far it's not been what we expected, she hasn't been doing half the stuff we thought she would or have asked her to do.

Our gripes :

• She doesn't seem to be doing many structured activities really with either of the children. She has started taking them to some groups, so at least they'll get something out of those.

When home - with the baby 75% of the time he seems to be sitting amongst the same toys occupying himself whilst she cleans the kitchen or eats her breakfast/lunch. As for the toddler, 75% the time she's just wandering around entertaining herself or playing with the same toys that are already out. What I would expect is, at a minimum, the nanny should get out different toys so they're getting some variety, and ideally, do at least one structured activity a day (she does maybe one a week).

• We don't seem to be getting the benefit of her supposed experience.

We'd expected her to be on the ball with developing both their skills, whether that's crawling / standing / spoon skills for baby ... or drawing letters, learning days of the week etc for toddler. But we don't think that currently we're getting any more for our money than if we'd employed a cheaper, less experienced nanny. E.g. I would have expected her by now to ask about whether we are thinking of transitioning the baby from milk between meals to snacks.. but nope no mention of it (of course I'm not WAITING for her to suggest it before I start transitioning, just surprised that she hasn't even mentioned it given her years of experience).

• She eats her breakfast and lunch at a different time to the children.

Now, normally I wouldn't dream of dictating when anybody eats, but it seems a bit off that she feeds the children, then leaves them to their own devices while she cleans the kitchen, and then further leaves them to their own devices as she then sits down to eat her own meal - when it's perfectly possible and normal to just eat at the same time as them. She doesn't take massively long, but it's just niggling at me. I know, everyone needs a break, so maybe we're being too OTT and I'm prepared to be told if that is the case.

• She hasn't done any of the regular jobs that I had written down for her.

Examples are : deep clean high chairs every so often (instead of just wiping the tray), deep clean the baby bath every so often, wash the toddler's toilet seats every so often. Are those acceptable things to be asking her to be doing??

I know the day is only so long, and if it looked like she was trying and she genuinely didn't have time to be getting everything done, I'd understand.

But I just don't know what she's doing half the time except making herself look busy tidying the kitchen or sitting 'supervising' the children's play but not coming up with new activities herself.

Are we being unreasonable to expect her to be doing educational activities with the children?

I'm also wary of bringing stuff up as I don't want it to affect her relationship with us / the children.

Thanks for any advice!

Are you at home? How do you know she isnt doing anything with the children?

This is just lazy, she ‘wow’d you in interview but as iv seen many times, Interviews and actually being with children are two completely different things

What did her references say?
Have you got a trial run ?

If you dont feel you can speak openly to your nanny, You have a real problem.

How is she with the children? Does she speak to them on there level? What is the interaction like?

Hmmm, I’ve the best nanny on this earth but I wouldn’t have thought anything bad of her for any of the things you say are making you unhappy. But in my opinion normal daily unstructured life is totally healthy for kids that age. Deep cleaning stuff, I guess you asked so ideally she’d do it. But to be honest for me, the best nanny is the one that minds the kids to the best of their ability, actually grows to love them, and keeps that part of the family running smoothly and happily. I expect to give a lot of freedom to my nanny and treat them like family, but in return I’d want my nanny to work hard, honestly and with the best intentions.

But that’s how my nanny has turned out and she has needed no instruction. Doesn’t do exact things I would have done, or in the same way I like them done, but I trust her completely. That’s far more important than regularly completed ‘tasks’.

I was a nanny for 20 years. I really do think your expectations of cleaning are over the top. The nanny should tidy and clean the mess she's made but that's it. That gives her time to play with the children and take them out to activities and parks. Having said that it doesn't seem like she's doing much playing either. I was always sat at the table or on the floor with them doing something or another. I was always doing something with them unless I was clearing away the lunch or dinner stuff and I always sat and ate with them. I did try and have a break when the baby napped and would have an hour to myself after I'd tidied up. Most jobs do have a break so I think it's reasonable for a Nanny to take a break too. If you arnt happy I think you need to talk to her and say why but I wouldn't make this about cleaning u would focus on the attention given to the children

I had a nanny for years. She was super. She did input - painting, reading, messy play, weekly activities, playing outside ... all the stuff you'd hope for. She didn't deep clean anything afair. She loved my DC and vice versa. I have no idea what she did for her lunch etc but given my DC had good input for x % of the day, if the nanny took a half hour break who cares?

How do you know what she does for 75% of the day? Do you have a nanny cam or are you at home watching her?

I’ve been on both sides of this. Do you not do handover? Either a verbal or written list at the end of the day of what the children have done and what she’s done?

Eating with the children is normal and expected, only reasonable excuse is if the baby is being spoon fed.

Structured activities it depends on the family, expectations should be discussed in advance so if you didn’t have that conversation (and just assumed from the interview) I don’t think she’s doing anything wrong. It would be reasonable to discuss this now.

Deep clean and regular jobs it might be a difference in standards, so she’s not doing the chair/seat it because it looks clean? Or not doing laundry because it doesn’t look like a full load. I’d maybe try specifying exactly when you want things done, so laundry on Tuesday, high chair every other day, or whatever. Have you shown her cleaning supplies, machine settings, etc? But she really should be able to manage all that or ask.

Your nanny should know your children’s ‘next steps’ and be setting activities to develop these. There should be a lot of free play, outside play, groups and then structured activity such a painting, baking, crafting, drawing. I don’t think a nanny needs to be giving structured ‘lessons’ to the kids - 1 and 3 are still pretty young. But she should be following their interests.
Personally adults eating with kids and the same food as them is VERY important to me, I think kids learning to serve, pour water and eat as a community is important - did you discuss this at interview? Might be worth setting out how important this is to you, rather than take issue with the time taken.
If she’s not going over and above on the cleaning/ tasks in the first few weeks - she never will. It’s down to you if you can make your peace with that or if it’s going to niggle you.
Its one thing an established nanny that the children love neglecting a few duties, quite another for a new nanny trying to make an impression neglecting them.

We have a nanny for DTs who are 2.5. I have never asked her to deep clean anything.

I wouldn’t expect a nanny to deep clean anything…. It seems like you have maybe empathised the cleaning aspect a little too much if she is spending more time cleaning the kitchen than playing with the kids. If she is cleaning while they eat and they are then playing while she eats, how it this any different to eating with them and then them playing while she cleans? Have you considered hiring a cleaner?

Do you provide all the structured activities stuff ? Even a three year old doesn’t generally stick to one activity for long . What does deep cleaning a highchair involve ?

Thanks all for the responses.

To answer some questions :

We know roughly what she is doing as both DH and I work from home often, so as we go to and from the kitchen or bathroom etc we'll see them and say hello / give the kids a kiss / ask what they're up to etc. We haven't got nanny cam!
And yes we do have a handover - so she'll say briefly what they've done (or we won't get much detail), and it's just not been that impressive overall, hence our disappointment.

References were good and yes she does have a probationary period as stipulated in the contract.

Fair enough about the deep cleaning comments, I'll take those on board, FYI it's nothing huge (e.g. since someone asked - deep cleaning high chair involves taking the cushion off about once every 2-3 weeks and shoving it in the laundry with the other stuff, then putting it back on once it's dry after having wiped the seat/foot boards more thoroughly than the usual post-meal tray wipe down).
It's just stuff that I thought was part and parcel of a nanny job, i.e. taking away the mental load of children-related chores.

As far as daily cleaning goes, we're not expecting her to do much. We have a cleaner for the house.
All the nanny has to do is clean up after herself and the children after cooking/eating.
She seems to enjoy spending more time in the kitchen than necessary, washing stuff that she personally hasn't used, tidying away things that I've left out for myself to sort.
I have had a casual word with her about this stuff and asked not to clear away our stuff and leave our own systems in place as that's the way we like it, tried to make it light hearted, she maintains that she just 'has to' have it all clean and tidy.
She puts on half empty dishwashers and half empty loads of washing sometimes, which we certainly don't expect or want her to do. This I think I have to handle carefully as I don't want her to go the opposite way and never do anything .. but also I think the balance does need to be tipped so that she's doing less cleaning and more spending time with children.

Her relationship with the children is fine - she seems to really like the baby and he likes her, with toddler it seems a bit fiery as 3 year old is typical threenager and with a stubborness to boot, but nanny handles it professionally and in the way I would expect - no issues there.

Also I really have no issue with her having breaks as appropriate, but when she takes the time out to have a child-free breakfast and a child-free lunch and again in the afternoon for an hour while baby naps / toddler has quiet time - that's more breaks than most people have in the same number of hours at other jobs.

@Ohlalahair - yes I agree in that if she was a long standing established nanny it would be different but she hasn't built up the trust yet and she must realise she has to make a good impression. So it's as if she's just not aware and thinks she's doing a great job, which begs the question - will she actually improve if we 'have a word'?

@Spiderboy - she's not cleaning while they eat, she's sitting with them, just not eating with them. She's assisting baby to eat but he's managing finger food more now and I asked her in her first week to let him loose with the spoon more so he develops that skill (which she hasn't).

@Train007 - yes we have TONS of toys and craft stuff and activity books and outdoor games etc. I showed her where everything was on her first week and asked her to explore / use / organise etc as she wishes.
I had to remind her this week that all this stuff existed and, when I took the kids out one afternoon, I asked her to organise it, she found loads of stuff which she apparently got excited by so we'll see if it comes out as an activity.

Remember OP you’re her employer and if you’d like something done - ask (tell her nicely).
For example - now that the weather’s getting better what are your plans? Can you make sure you take them out once a day etc.
can you wash the high chair today please?
don’t worry about the stuff left out in the kitchen, I need to dirt it later etc.

I think you can’t have everything OP, you moan she’s cleaning but also moan she’s not cleaning enough. If you want her to fit in breaks and doing proper activities with the kids, I wouldn’t be asking her to do the kids laundry and deep cleaning anything.

I think now is a good time to sit down with her and clarify exactly what you do want (as it’s a little confusing), maybe take some cleaning tasks away to clarify that you want her to do structured activities with the kids now that she’s settled in and gotten to no them properly. Do you want her to follow the early years stuff that nurseries do? That may help. Do a general settling in review and be clear about what you want.

You both WFH, pop in & out.

I think you should count yourself lucky she's still coming into work.

Tricky - I'm torn

You seem to mention a lot of deep cleaning

That not what nannies do

Yet she cleans the kitchen and you aren't happy

What hours does she do. You mention breakfast twice - yes as a nanny I was always offered 3 meals a day if I wanted them. Rarely are yea there but often breakfast if started at 7am. Ans obv had lunch

Eating with them. Maybe she doesn't want to eat lunch at 12 for example but if she is sitting with them I don't see the issue

Be grateful she is cleaning /putting away your stuff. That's really not nanny duties and most nannies would leave this and moan to their friends

Was she a hk in previous jobs ?

Yes she could play a bit more with them

Structured as in what ? You want a painting /duplo /playdough /counting

What activities does she do - when I was a 5 day nanny I wouid usually do something in am

Mon swim
Tue tumbletots
Wed M&T
Thur music
Fri animals /dance etx

Maybe she feel conscious sitting and playing

But you and dh keep popping in and out /saying hi to kids etx prob drives her nuts

Yes you are parents and want to see your kids - but equally since covid more employers are at home and makes nannying much harder

I'm not sure why the cleaning thing is confusing to people. It's quite simple.

1 - Daily cleaning in the kitchen - just clean up after herself and the children, and don't move/clean my stuff as already requested. The time she's saving as a result, can instead be spent with the children.
2 - Other regular jobs that I've laid out clearly as her duties once every 2-3 weeks will only take 10-15 minutes tops. It's going to have negligible effect on time spent with children.
I'm not sure why some PPs think it's 'a lot' of deep cleaning. However the point stands that it seems 'unreasonable' according to this thread to expect her to do those, so I will probably not bring those up now.

I disagree that I should 'be grateful' she is putting away my stuff : it hinders me and it takes her away from playing with the children. I only want her to do her nanny duties of cleaning hers/children related things. Not hard to understand.
If you were a shop employee and you were spending time polishing the mugs in the staff room instead of serving customers on the shop floor, should your employer feel grateful? No, of course not.

@Coffeellama - "If you want her to fit in breaks and doing proper activities with the kids, I wouldn’t be asking her to do the kids laundry.." - this seems an odd view to me.
If nannies couldn't fit in the childcare AND the laundry and breaks, why would this exist as an established childcare system? One of the common reasons for people to employ a nanny is specifically so that they get the benefit of having the children's housework done too.

The us WFH thing was made clear to her at interview - and she was perfectly happy with it.
Her choice to take the job knowing what the setup was, and her duties are her duties - the fact that we are at home shouldn't change anything.
(And besides, it's not like we're just hanging around them all day, we do have our own jobs to do aswell.)
So no, @WinterMusings , I don't 'count myself lucky' that she's coming into work, it's just her job!

@Blondeshavemorefun - to answer some of your questions :

Hours are 7.30-4, so she does breakfast/lunch for them.

I'm not sure what a 'hk' is?

The examples of structures activities you give are exactly the kind of thing I want her to do.

As far as outings go, so far she's only been to a few playgroups and storytime.
I've provided her with a looooong list of ideas for stuff going on in the area, and she seemed happy to have that list. I'm hoping that when the weather gets nicer, she'll go out a bit more to parks/walks/farms/garden/etc.

You say 'Maybe she feel conscious sitting and playing' - fair point but personally I don't think this is the case.
At interview she had so many ideas of stuff she'd do with them, she said she was really excited about working with younger children again and coming up with activities (her last job was mainly doing school runs for older kids) - and when she did subsequent visits to meet the children she was happy sitting and getting stuck in with them whilst we were there, and seemed perfectly natural doing it.

OP, I agree with most of what you say. I would also prefer my nanny to be eating with the children rather than separately, playing with them rather than spending ages tidying the kitchen, and doing activities with them inside and outside the house.

However, it also sounds like she's doing a reasonable job, just not an amazing one. So I think it's up to you really. If you terminate her at the end of the probation period there's no guarantee you'll get someone better.

Maybe book her activities or say what would you like me to book. Swimming dance and tumble tots were all termly paid in advance

Have you discussed a kitty /given her cash to go out

Does sound weird as she is experienced

Hk is housekeeper so used to doing more chores than childcare

Had a nanny for years. Would never ask her to deep clean anything. She tidied up at the end of the day.

If I wanted the kids to go to classes or activities, I'd discuss what was workable with her and then I'd book/pay and she'd take them.

If we wanted the kids to do something specific then we'd ask her to do that i.e we've been trying to teach them colours, please can you do some practice with these cards.

Other than that, we expected them to leave the house at least once a day (assuming weather was nice) and be well fed and happy.

Our nanny was amazing, the kids loved her so much. She comes round for Sunday lunch every couple of months.

I’ve had a nanny for years OP and I think it’s a bit of a mixed bag.

First of all I’d drop the cleaning expectations. She should be cleaning up after kids and leaving things as she found them imo. If you want deep cleaning etc get a cleaner.

Re developing the kids/awareness of milestones - personally as the parent I would expect to lead on this. If you want her to transition your baby from milk to snacks then tell her this. I guess I’d expect her to suggest things if she felt the baby was ready for them but you might need to tell her this as other parents may see this as overstepping.

Re structured activities - I don’t really care about this for kids of this age. Baby is young and toddler will get it at nursery. If the nanny is playing with the kids and talking to them, reading to them and responding to them that’s the most important thing.

Which leads on to the next point - the nanny should spend most of her time interacting and actively playing/engaging with the kids. If she is cleaning/eating instead then that’s not good. You can tell her you want her to eat with the kids for example - I think that’s important to eg model table manners. If you get the sense that she is just leaving then with toys then I think you would be within your rights to mention this and ask that they get a bit more from her. If you don’t trust her to do this then maybe you need to get a new nanny.

Thanks everyone for good and thoughtful responses. I've gained a lot of insight into how other nannies do things and my takeaway is that I need to drop certain expectations and be clearer with her on others, and decide what's most important to me going forward. It's good to know also that I'm not being totally unreasonable (according to some of you, anyway :) )

Thankyou!

@ParentsTrapped yes good point about the milestones and her maybe not wanting to overstep. I don't personally think she'd have a problem suggesting things as she seems quite naturally confident and not shy to say stuff, but maybe that's in the back of her mind (or maybe I've got her all wrong). Anyway, I'll talk to her about it.