Help me understand what to expect of our childminder!

[Littlewiseone]

Short summary for context:
DS (10 months) has been with childminder now since end of Oct and having regular settling in sessions ranging from 1 hour in the beginning and now we are up to 8 hour day twice per week. DS will go 4 full days from January.
When I first met with the CM in the summer at her home I got a great first impression - friendly, warm, experienced, lovely home and garden area.
Was delighted to have found cm as they are hard to come by in my area.

I looked through a folder of references, accreditations, and various other things that I now cant remember... But I think included a rough idea of what sort of activities they do. It was also mentioned that they spends loads of time in the garden.

Fast forward a few months and we are six weeks into DS being with the CM and he seems happy enough ie doesn't wail when I drop him off and seems well looked after. As it has been a number of months since we first met, I have more questions that have arisen since then that I feel are fairly common to want answered. However, I feel like I am being drip fed information about how my DS is getting on when I pick him up. Bear with me:

1. After 8 settling in sessions of only one hour after which the cm would take him out to me, I jumped on here to ask for advice on how to approach this as I was getting frustrated. I then contacted CM and asked politely if she could take him for longer next time and so on and that it was a little more difficult not being able to sit in with him at any point (nobody allowed in at any time to main area which is fine). She responded politely to say lets try longer next time but that if I wanted to go elsewhere she wouldn't be offended. I didnt want that I said, I just want to ramp it up a bit. I felt like I had to take the lead there and this caused me a lot of anxiety as I expected the cm to take the lead.
2. I asked how many children she looks after and she said "it varies from day to day". That was the end of the conversation - AIBU to want to know how many kids are there?
3. I know that DS has not spent any time outside all the times he has been there. This bothers me a lot.
4. The first few weeks I was always greeted by the cm with a happy smiling face, very happy to see us. In the past week or so its only her assistant (daughter) who comes to the door at drop off and pick up. There is no real feedback during the day except for the odd photo of DS and so I rely on having a chat at pick up however, its in the doorway/front door and I just feel like a burden standing there asking how he got on. They dont rush me, but arent forthcoming with much info. For the first month he stayed very close to the cm which is fair enough. Now he is down on the floor with the bigger kids. I am obsessing over what they do all day! And I cant seem to let it go. At the end of the day, my baby is not even 11 months old - AIBU to want to know about his development during the day and how his needs were met in that way? I feel like this cm is fairly vague and will answer questions, but wont be forthcoming themselves with extra information. There is no "platform" to share information on DS and how he got on, its a quick chat in the doorway and off.
5. I messaged the CM yesterday (after weeks of thinking too much about it) and asked if myself and my partner could pop round before xmas for 15/20 mins to discuss contracts, get copies of DBS checks for both, sickness policies etc AND to get a better understanding of what DS will do all day when he goes full time. CM responded no can do, very busy before xmas but could perhaps do a call first week of Jan. I tried to lock in a date but heard nothing back to that end. I am worried she thinks I am a pain but I feel entitled to ask questions. I know my limit and wouldnt be bothersome! I simply would like to know more about what my DS will do when he is there full time.
6. Today on pick up the CM's assistant greeted me again and the cm was in the background briefly and said hiya... but I could feel she was standoffish and not the usual super friendly cm she was. I dont feel I have done anything wrong here. I am super stressed and anxious about the whole thing.
7. Finally, I believe DS nappy was changed only once today. In 8 hours :(

In summary: I am bothered that I dont know more about what DS will do all day in CM setting - any CM's to advise what to expect from a CM's day roughly?

Thanks x

I used 2 childminders. First one did have a book and used to note nappy changes, naps etc. tbh I’m not that interested in how many nappy changes my child has had (and one nappy change in 8 hours is 4 hours per nappy which seems fine to me 🤷‍♀️) unless they’re coming home dirty or sore. I did wonder how much of the day was spent writing in 3 children’s books!

Second childminder didn’t do books or an online platform, just a quick casual handover like you describe. She’d say if they’d been to the ducks or park or whatever or what they’d done at home. I always saw her as someone to care for my child rather than educate my child and wasn’t too worried about the EYFS curriculum that nurseries seemed to push. Daughter moved to preschool at 3.5 and is flying there so I don’t think it’s done her any harm!

Yes am just saying I'd like to ask those basics each day as a minimum x

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. Some things my son's childminding setting has (multiple adults) - a board outside the door which says what food they have been offered that day and any focuses for the day - a walk, Xmas crafts etc. Daily photos. An app that lists toileting, naps etc. sometimes it is updated a bit late (or the following day) but that's understandable. I don't think with a childminding setting you have to accept less communication.

If the CM has under 5s she would only have 3 kids max.... so a double buggy and one walker doesn't sound unfeasible for local trips out?

You’re not being unreasonable. We have used two different childminders due to a house move. Very different styles but both friendly and professional in their own way. The first one would give a verbal download at drop-off in terms of meals. Very much a home from home environment.

Our second is more professional and focuses on EYFS learning so we have a learning journal which comes home every few months. We are on DC2 with her and updates vary; we have a WhatsApp group where she will post photos and a brief update on what they’ve been up to. She will happily answer questions about meals at pickup but doesn’t always update unless prompted. But I feel like I have a good overview of what DC2 gets up to, eg she sent through a “programme” for the next two weeks the other day.

There is a huge trust element with childminders. It’s a relationship - more so than a nursery - and it needs to work for all of you.

But he's only there for an hour or so, isn't he?
Or have I got this wrong?

Is your ds happy to go there? That's the main thing.

He's there for 8 hour days now x

Our childminder has always (five years in!) WhatsApped is a handover every day of wet/dry nappies/using the toilet, what's been eaten and what they've done mostly a playgroup or feed the ducks or whatever. Also sends photos of him throughout the day . I have never seen a DBS check and I would never ask... she is a registered childminder so will have one along with all needed courses. Xx

Which nurseries have the same manager handing over everyday and talking to you for a ten minute hand over? Which nurseries allow you copies of DBs of staff? Which nurseries go out each day? Most nurseries I've been to as an assessor fill out daily diaries of what children eat, do and nappy changes in the morning according to the menus and nappy changing schedules. Most are not letting parents in.

Our nursery was very small. The same manager every day on the door. It felt like the bonuses of a childminder with the bonuses of a nursery setting.

No she has an assistant so could have 6 .....and under variation rules could now have more depending on other factors.

DD was at a nursery from 1, and now she 3 is at a preschool, both of which do all those things.

Mine.

• Detailed keyworker handover every day.
• Outside daily inc things like forest school and trips
• Full log of food etc (mine too old for nappies, milk, naps but we got this too).
• Photos of activities daily and regular reports against milestones
• All staff first aid qualified and DBS checked. Lots of docs available on secure website for parents.

They couldn’t do more, we now travel 25 mins each way by car to stay there (we have moved house) because I won’t tolerate anything less than excellent for my DD.

I used to be a CM and my mum was my assistant. It does get busy at pick up times so I wouldn't expect her to have time for long feedback but I would expect a quick chat and a record of nappies, sleeps, feeds etc. I used to use a book when I started which had all of the above and a little summary of activities we had done that day. Then I switched to using an app which was better. It is a requirement for cm to communicate with parents about their child's day. Trust your instinct!
Also the outside thing..... they should be getting some fresh air at least. I can't believe she doesn't go mad staying in all day. She should have appropriate equipment to take all the kids out (buggies, sling etc). I also find it odd you're not allowed in. 🤔

Ofsted and the EYFS have changed so the amount of wasted time that took staff away from directly working with the children has been cut....the paperwork like learning journals, trackers, written observations etc. We're all seen to be detrimental to time spent working with the children ...inspections now are much more tell me about that child over there where did they start where are they now in their learning and what are you working on next. They ask continually what is that child getting from that activity how is it supporting the next steps. It could be something the child has selected themselves. Before practitioners did not have to really know their charges they could just show a learning journey now they have to speak a learning journey. A lot of current practice in all settings including schools is planning in the moment around child's interest not writing a plan for the future....you know the child's next steps then adapt the interest of the day or hour to what they need to achieve the next step

Most nurseries do hangovers with the selected staff member for the day not necessarily the child's key worker so handover updates are very general. Often key workers haven't done much with the child but are just the one who does the paperwork....something that needs to change.
A DBS is a confidential document that has personal information it should not be held by a nursery they should just have suitability letters from Ofsted the same as childminders. Showing the DBS is like giving a customer all the details needed to set up a bank account. Ofsted registration is the suitability check needed to prove a childminder and all adults in the home are suitable. If they have any contact with the police the address is flagged and Ofsted notified by the police. This does not work for a nursery as individual staff addresses are not linked to childcare so the DBS must be updated....but is only as good as the day it's done.

Having been the other side of the door observing many times as an assessor ..
Keyworker handover....can be what the daily plan was for the room with x enjoyed, x ate, x for d....same for each parent ...and keyworker is often out of room or on a duty like nappies.
Logs of food and nappies...are the menu plan and nappy schedule....many set a staff target of a nappy change done in under 2 minutes.
All childminders are first aid trained as frequently as nursery staff....every 3 years effectively more frequently as you can't leave it until the last month or two.
Are you saying that you have access to staff members DBS forms showing address, previous addresses, date of birth, full names, marital status .....because that would be very worrying. You could see the suitability status of staff in an Ofsted letter....but you get that from seeing the Ofsted certificate of a childminder.
Ofsted ratings such as outstanding or good are measured against the same criteria for all types of registered setting.
Childminders typically go out in the environment more often than nurseries and may well include Forest schools.

The op isn't saying she does not get photos but that she doesn't get them through the day.

You have spectacularly missed the point. I was responding to a specific post by someone else about nurseries. Try reading!

It would be unusual to have so long a settling in period unless you had expressly asked to go full time before your start date.
Most offer a few sessions in the month before starting full days....it could be that she didn't don't see the need to do more longer sessions costing you money if baby was happy eating sleeping and coming in etc.
If baby is there for an hour..up until recently ....going out in the garden in the cold and wet is not a priority over feeds, nappies, sleep and play...baby needs to be settled at this before you take 10 minutes getting a warm outfit on for them to be outside the 10 to get it off again only leaving 40 for everything else your planning for settling like cuddles, 1 to 1 play etc.
Now your up to 8 hours she may well be getting lo outside.
What time are you picking up....is it meal time, getting others ready for nappies, going home etc.....that's a busy time and long handovers may not be so easy ...it's also a busy time of year so hard to plan an extra out of hours meeting this close to Christmas
Ofsted registration is proof of suitability....Ofsted are in effect doing the role of a school head they know every adult in the house is suitable hence continued registration....look up her report on line if you feel she may have been deregistered ..a DBS is private and you could use it fraudulently she doesn't even have a legal right to show you her families any more than you could ask to see those of nursery staff.

Sending updates through the day is time consuming and takes them away from working with children....if you lo wasn't settled they would let you know....do you get photos every week or so.....it's a lot of extra time after a 10 hour day with children then paperwork and training before getting your own life sorted to be sending daily pics to 6 families. It's totally reasonable to ask if she can send some weekly or so and to ask about nappies, feeds, sleeps.....activity wise for an 11 month old isn't going to vary much.....she maybe doing things to give you for Christmas.......

Nappy changes arrive in clean nappy...change if poohed otherwise typically 3 to 4 hourly depending on fluid intake ....so 8 arrive clean....10.30 to 1 depending on sleep, drink pooh times change again between 2 and 4 home by 4.....child has been in nappy 3 to 4 hours max probably less.....do you change lo every 2 to 3 hours overnight?

Single, double, triple or quad pushchairs common...reins 2 each.....but not in the hour settlings and op isn't clear how many 8 hours have happened other than it's recently.

The point of settling in is your lo accepting comfort and care from the childcare professional....if your sat there it will sent going to happen lo will keep wanting you to feed, get to sleep and your attention so staying doesn't work....it is also a safeguarding problem as you can't be left alone so your taking one person's full attention

I get specific information about what my child has been doing. I can speak to as many of the staff as I like, sometimes I am in the room for 3 mins at pick up, sometimes 20. I get shown her artwork, we look at what she has made. We talk about what she did/said/who she played with/what interested her etc. Plus anything they want to note eg food, behaviour, general thoughts.

Sometimes I talk to the staff at drop about the day before, sometimes I don’t. We can go in at any time and speak to anyone. They are never too busy and we are always welcomed in.

I didn’t say DBS was visible!!!!!!!! But all of the policies and processes and training docs are and they go far and above what is required as a minimum eg all trainees have full first aid etc which isn’t a prerequisite. They are as transparent as possible.

I have no issue with childminders, but the OP’s is shit. I wouldn’t send my child to anywhere that didn’t make me feel 100% comfortable.

Nappy change times are recorded in a nursery because they have a variety of staff changing nappies making it easy to overlook a child you record it so it can be checked and traced back ....if there are 3 children in nappies and 2 adults you know you changed a nappy a nappy change times like after eating or bottle and you know when ones Pooh's becouse your physically close to them ...most recording in nursery is becouse it's the only way to know a child has slept, eaten, poohed.

Most settings don't allow parents in now that changed with Covid....and as many childminders were struggling to get parents out the door with them staying ....some over an hour at the end of a long day ...lots of CMS have found doorstep not only stops as many bugs...Covid etc are still about....but shortens the day so they do 10 mins at the door instead.
In Covid books were against guidelines and apps are no longer required and takes time away from working with children verbally is sufficient.