Why are we treated/paid as glorified babysitters or less?

[Kiddi]

this is one that opens the age old question and I am sure It will upset many too.
It is an accepted fact that many parents who quite verbally want the best for their children? then find it acceptable to pay you late, or not at all, treat you with less respect than beautician, gym instructor, cleaner and pay you less!
I am not sure this is coming across right but I am sure their are many childminders who understand where I am coming from.
This is not just a rant I am actually trying to work out if it is a pay thing, a fact you work from home, or a qualification thing?
i am thinking of surveying my parents to see what level qualifications they have, and what 'status' job they have, and If they will tell me if they earn above or below, or well above minumum wage?
i am doing my studies at the mo, and just realising again that many parents often feel that a nursery is better quality care than minding, but more expensive. or that they do not realise that often a nursery may have many low level staff doing the childcare and the high level staff doing paperwork/business/managment etc.
Its just something I am curious about and I welcome any views, however extreme either way.

I'm a sahm, so don't know about your position, BUT I pay my babysitters way above what most CM seem to get cos as far as I'm concerned, looking after my ds is the most important job there is and I want them to take it seriously, even if it looks like they're just watching the telly

It could be a pay thing. Though you are able to price your service at whatever you like, but you can of course price yourself out of the market. I remember being told by a London based agency, that no one would pay my rates... but parents DO pay my rates - so increasing fees can work (at least for me, as a babysitter).

I don't think parents are likely to complete your survey. However, you may be able to get a general feel for that kind of thing anyway - just by asking them where they work, plus checking out the latest house prices in their street.

With regard to nurseries, I met a family last weekend, who when we started chatting said they had been looking around nurseries for when their baby is 3-4 months old (their baby is currently 6 weeks old). They hadn't even considered other forms of childcare, except for granny (who will do a few days a week). So perhaps some of the problem is that some parents are not getting the information about the various forms of childcare available. Luckily they looked (on-line) for a babysitter, found me, and I have now been able to tell them all about childminders, plus give them contact details for a local childminder who lives in their street, plus CIS details. Will they still look at nurseries, probably... but with luck they will also visit some childminders, and then have something to compare against.

I would agree with skibump, some parents will pay more than what childminders charge. Though it is hard to compare pricing between different forms of childcare, as for example, a babysitter/nanny is paid on a per-family basis, whereas a childminder charges a per-child fee - as do nurseries, thus why perhaps nurseries and childminders are compared, whereas it is harder to compare say a childminder to a nanny / babysitter.

couldn't agree with you more kiddi
I get £3 per child an hour, I tip more than that in a restaurant after a meal

too many parents want their child looked after for as little as poss, then expect you to be Mary Poppins

a lot kid themselves on I think, if I ever used a childminder myself I'd pay her at least £5 per child per hour

Can I just say I am often slightly taken aback by childminders on MN who are willing to be messed around, though? Who don't charge holiday pay, and/or feel that being paid late is a 'fact of life'?

My childminder would have sacked me years ago if I didn't agree to her conditions.

but if CMs in the area all charge £3 per hour, then that is what the market will sustain? if you are babysitting, you are paid per hour, if you are CM , you are paid per child.. so if you are fully booked, you are making more than £3 per hour

i think if parents are breaching the contract, ie paying late then you have to enforce it.

many, many parents are willing to pay correctly, on time and treat their child care givers with respect.

in fact , i don;t know anyone who pays their CM or nursery late. i have never done so.

the flipside is, a lot of parents have to be in work, fulltime, and have no option but to have their children in childcare, but cash flow is still tight. so £5 per hour might be out of reach and paying on time all the time might also be out of reach.

two sides to every coin i suppose.

Message withdrawn

cammila....."the flipside is, a lot of parents have to be in work, fulltime, and have no option but to have their children in childcare, but cash flow is still tight. so £5 per hour might be out of reach and paying on time all the time might also be out of reach."
childminding is work you know? and we all have to be in work full time too.

erm, yes, i realise that

i use a childminder from time to time, and i know how much she does

i am trying to see if from both sides.

why parents might pay late, for example

am not saying that a CM does not deserve to be paid on time, and that the work is valueless, am trying to see it from the other side to the OP, that's all

When my DS was in nursery, I paid £30 per day including meals and nappies.

When he was with a childminder, her charge was £3 per hour, which considering he would be with her for 9 hours per day, at £27 without nappies, but including lunch and two snacks, but no tea) was to me comparable with the nursery.

I think the local market and what people are prepared to pay has a lot to do with it as well.

I'm in the North of England ands £30 a day is the going rate whatever the option is. I think higher rates may be sustainable in the South.

also, from my POV, a childminder is a regular commitment, whereas babysitters tend to be an occasional thing fr a night out (and I can't remember the last time my DH and I wer out together) so I would be prepared to pay a higher rate.

And to add a flippant question, if CMs aren't happy with the pay they get, and feel like a badly paid, undervalued skivvy, then why do it?

but bills should always be paid on time.

I have lots of respect for childminders too and have always paid my childminder on time , would never dream of messing her around and all told her how pleased i was with her care of my daughter but childminders have to take into account that parents are paying them out of their already taxed income. I paid £4 per hour - £40 per day. After tax, NI, tube fares i took home £72 per day so i was clearing £32 per day for an 11 hour day. My childminder had my daughter and two sometimes three other children. She was therefore earning at least £80 per day and sometimes £120 (when she had three children). She also obviously did not pay for childcare herself (she had two children) plus never actually had to pay tax or NI because of all the tax deductables etc (she told me this). I am not saying this is wrong, good luck to her , BUT CM's have to realise that unless their parents are very well paid, they are actually taking home alot less than they are (assuming they have more than one mindee). I know there are other pros and cons to this debate but just wanted to make this point.

daisy do you go out to work or work from home???

CMs choose to work from home so they can also be with their own children. not all mums want to go away from home to work.....

not paying NI??? are you sure???

I did go out to work, now at home on ML, and seriously considering CM so that I don't have to go out to work again

which is why I'm lurking around the CM boards!

then daisy you answered your own "flippant" question!

OTOH.... many of us are truly grateful for our CM's, can't actually afford to have them always (because of student finance cock ups) but have moved heaven and earth to pay them on time because we think they're fantastic

And don't have haircuts, or pay babysitters because the CM is far more important to us and we dread the day ds3 has to go to school and loses her support (he ahs SN and she is one of the few poeple he si close to bar trhe immediate family)

I thank God for my CM, and I beleive she knows that

OTOH? huh? im getting old!!!

Molly can I just say, that to be not paying tax, then she had to have a high rate of expenses, I rarely pay tax and bring in a fair amount, BUT the money that the taxman would have I spend on the children, it is not 'mine', if i didn't spend it on the children (outings, toys, equipment, food, as well as extra heating, lighting etc) I would pay tax,

I earn £3.25 per hour, and have 3 full time children so technically earn £9.75 per hour,
I get nowhere like that in my hand, and at times like this when we have extras (more craft equipment, Christmas Presents, more soft play, indoor activities) my expenses an be phenomenal.

I can't see how my childminder would have had that many legitimate expenses.. i agree that electric and heating is more but there's no need to have heating on all day except on really cold days plus the mums provided all food, nappies etc and were all preschool so the school run/ car use was for her own children only. We also gave her money for any planned outings. She obviously has toys tec but there are one off capital expenses and can't be used for a long time and can be bought in car boots etc. She told me there was lots of normal household bills she could use as tax deductables plus her car expenses (although technically she didn't use her car as a childminder). I don't know. I didn't really wnat to get into an debate about earnings. I think we all deserve to earn more and living costs are too high for everyone! It gets my goat when i see CM saying they get £3 per hour, less than minimum wage etc when actually they earn that PER CHILD and not actually per hour and often their income is not taxed at all, which they often don't take into account.

sorry that should say "can be used for a long time" apologies for my other typos. am tired!

I know a childminder who declares her income for the one child she looks after 3 days a week.

The many others she has, before and after school, she asks for cash. She charges £5 per hour per child. So is getting at least £150 per week cash, therefore tax-free.

I know this goes on with a lot of childminders and I don't necessarily disaprove. Its a hard job, she does it very well, all the parents who use her are very happy. She is a friend of mine and I admire her for her resourcefulness. Her family income isn't great.

But I do find it hard to reconcile her left-leaning politics (which I share) with her determination not to pay tax on the money she has earned.

OTH, I have a different childminder. I pay her £5 per hour plus 4 weeks holiday pay per year. And this has to be in the time when she goes on holiday (usually the whole of August). So this year, we go on holiday in July. She goes on holiday in August. I end up paying her 6 weeks pay for absolutely no childcare at all!

But, like most other people with a childminder they respect and admire hugely, I have no choice but to swallow this and carry on with her til next year ...

Would always choose childminder rather than daycare for a pre-schooler.

Smee LOL, by the time I finished that your post was there- when I started it was pretty much OP

which is why it was OTOh (on the other ahnd)

i earn less than the minimum wage as i only look after one child at a time as i like to dedicate my time to that time plus i have three children of my own..two that are at school.. i dont ask for extra money and everything inc outings comes out of my wage ..plus they have three home cooked meals a day.. but i bet if i put my hourly rate up i wouldnt get any kids.. a cleaner earns more than i do and im a qualified N.N.E.B with 20 yrs experience as well..i know i charge more than most childminders in my area but still not covering minimum wage!!

Is there really that big a difference in costs between c/m & nurseries. I pay my c/m £5.50/hour atm - it adds up to a very similar amount to nursery charges I used to pay for ds...

I think a lot of c/m problems, tbh, are shared by many of us who are se (eg I often get paid 6/8 weeks plus after I've finished a project) I think the difference is, sadly, our culture doesn't value childcare, AND tends to assume that homeworking is easy.

(Oh, and I don't have a beautician, cleaner or gym instructer - couldn't afford any of them! I do think that some c/ms can slightly assume that anyone who employs them lives a life of pampered luxury...

I would just like to add that most CMs (myself included) go into the job with their eyes open, knowing full well that they will never be rich ! Most of us do the job because we love it, and it suits our situation, plus its flexible and interesting etc. I agree with the poster who said we shouldn't let ourselves be taken for granted. You don't have to accept being treated badly, paid late etc. I had one parent like that and I soon resigned, as it was making me hate the job. All other parents have been very respectful, grateful etc and made my job a pleasure.

bambi06, thats because you only look after one child when you could always take more on, i only earn just over £6 per hour and £3 of that goes to childminder. my point is that you are choosing to earn that, just like i am choosing to because i would rather be working than not. i can understand it must be bloody annoying when people pay late etc. i'd like to earn more but i dont, im sure cm's are the same. thats something i just have to deal with.