and I thought employing a nanny wouldn't be that difficult. Growl at everyone who pays their nanny cash in hand...

[foxinsocks]

grrrr

so have got a shortlist having read through lots of CVs

have a chat with a few of them

one says outright she doesn't want a job where she pays tax (so she's off my list) - she was the one best qualified and the most suitable

second one's visa runs out too soon for my liking

3 and 4 are both doing nanny work already where, essentially, they are being treated like au pairs (so yet again, not paying tax).

I refuse to pay like that so I've had to say no to them too.

I need a nanny job FinS I'll pay tax

so they want the gross rate and not have to pay tax?

Any employer who does cash-in-hand in that situation is frankly stupid. What is there to stop a nanny being unhappy and turning around and reporting the employer to the Inland Revenue. They are allowing the nanny to have them by the b_lls.

You have my sympathies, foxinsocks. About twelve years ago I had the other parents in a nanny share putting pressure on me to go for a dodgy non-tax-paying arrangement - in effect, they were asking me to defraud my employer as I was a civil servant at the time . So I looked around for other nannies/nanny shares and found an amazing number of tax dodgers - the kind of people who would go on about single parents scrounging but don't feel any need to pay tax themselves. I seriously considered suggesting to the Inland Revenue that they should do a sting operation .

A few of the nannies gave entertaining reasons for not wanting a proper legal arrangement - my favourite was the one on legal aid over her trademark as a singer.

Sorry, I know this doesn't help but I needed to join your scream...

blueshoes, I think the nanny would be in some trouble herself if she did that. All the same, the employer would presumably have more to lose.

you are right, the employer, who is probably already on the inland revenue's books and paying the nanny wages out of their post-tax salary, has much more to lose. Plus my sketchy understanding of tax is that the employer is primarily responsible for tax in a PAYE situation. So the Inland Revenue would presumably go after the employer first (having deeper pockets and all) than some flighty nanny.

Even if the nanny does not actually do it, it is the potential for the nanny threatening to do so, with its ramifications.

Hello Foxy
No real advice, just pouring you a stiff gin (whoops, bit early for that) lovely frothy latte and telling you that I Feel Your Pain. As you know I've been through the nanny-finding hell over the last - oh, 6 months?!
I must say I'm v surprised about the tax thing - IMO it is employers who don't want to pay it and nannies who would rather be legit - most nannies are delighted when I tell them I have a bona fide PAYE scheme with proper payslips and EVERYTHING going on. So maybe it is just freakishly bad luck and an odd batch of nannies.

Anyway, the right nanny is out there - are you using agencies? Tell them you will not countenance anyone who doesn't want a regular tax situation. Are you advertising on gumtree? I think you need to be ABSOLUTELY specific about what you want, including about the tax, and make it clear that you want responders to confirm that they meet your specific requirements in an initial email, and that you won't reply to any responses that don't provide that confirmation.

Anyway good luck! Pity you aren't near Hungerford - the temp nanny I had for 2 weeks just now is Perfect In Every Way and there are NO jobs around there for her. If she lived a bit closer to me I'd be tempted to hire her instead of my current one (actually I wouldn't because my current one is absolutely fine and I'm too nice, just the other one is also Very Very Tidy and Organised, which makes a change around here).

I'm rambling.
Courage, ma petite!

I'm suprised nannies wouldn't want their tax paid! Maybe they don't understand how tax works - what about their NI contributions if they ever have to claim benefits?

where are you, fis? in my bit of inner london there are heaps of eastern european nannies who are used to getting paid cash in hand . yes it does make life difficult for the conscientious employer. when i advertised for our last one on gumtree i put in the ad that paying tax and ni would be expected.

dalston, I presume the nanny is getting gross pay. So pecuniary advantage of a 22% cash-in-hand rather than to the taxman is too tempting.

I've never had this problem - round here we always quote net, and then I have the pleasure of grossing it all up and paying over to the taxman. I would never advertise for a job on a gross hourly/weekly wage, nor enter into discussions around this. Maybe you need to clarify that because you pay net, the tax is effectively YOUR cost, not theirs?

yes, but then, fis be at a disadvantage compared to other employers, as presumably she doesn't want to gross up what is already effectively a gross rate. and best practice is to quote gross. nannynick is very good on this.

arr, arr, fis be at a disadvantage, so she be...

s/be fis will be at a disadvantage...

Beat me to it BK- I was going to accuse you of coming over all Johnny Depp there...

thanks everyone . Minty, when does your job start? Thanks for the gin latte! I think it may well take me 6 months too!

yes, bossykate, I'm in London hence the proliferation of tax dodging childcare .

I think the thing with the nannies is that if they haven't had a job before where they've paid tax, they are unwilling to suddenly come under HMRC's radar iyswim. Also, I'm not advertising for full time which complicates matters.

Onwards and upwards I guess.

i find its parents who dont want to pay MY tax and NI.... or who want to only delcalre a certain amount of it!

i make it quite clear that everything will be declared to inland rev.... and that includes my payrise.... 'cant we just do payrise cash in hand, and inland rev can assuem you are paid the same?' NO!!!!

I am surprised... I had thought from the way nannies talk, that it is parents not wanting to deduct tax/NI and pay employers NI which was the problem... not the nanny not wanting to have their tax/NI deducted.

FoxInSocks - perhaps you are just having bad luck. Perhaps with our open borders, there are too many people calling themselves nannies, when they are more like au-pairs.

Are you wanting someone live-in? If so, could you consider someone live-out, thus someone who may want to be paid properly... or are these live-out nannies who want to be paid under-the-table? Don't they have any sense - they won't get any benefits if they are sick, won't get state pension (yes I know it's not much, but it must be better than nothing). They will never get a mortgage, as they won't have anyway to prove income.

Have you tried asking for Approved / Registered Nannies ... then you may get applicants who are more serious.

Tomorrow Foxy!!

V excited

Wish me luck

I've always been rather miffed that no employer has been willing to pay tax for me. I have had to register as self employed just so I am filing SOMETHING and paying it myself out of an £8 take home - so I am putting away £2 for every hour I work to pay tax. Hmmmmm.

I can't wait til I'm a bit more experienced so I can blag a job with a family that do tax properly. It's true that they'll get in trouble as well if they're caught, but I'd rather fill in a tax return and say, "Well at least I am willing to pay tax even if they're not" and run the whole "is a nanny ever self employed?" risk...... there have been so many debates about this.

I can't imagine I'll earn over 15k this year so I won't have to fill in a detailed return, I think.

But yes - most of the families I've been interviewed by have been the ones who don't want to pay tax. I guess being in a "well off" area as opposed to a wealthy area really makes the difference.

ooh minty, good luck! How exciting! Will you let us know how it goes?

nifty, you can come and work with us

(yes, it's live-out nannynick. I think the main problem is that it isn't full time so people see it as extra cash rather than a proper job. Ho hum. Anyway, baby sister is now coming to stay so am thinking of making asking her to do it for January when she'll be around as she hasn't got a job and then it gives me a bit more grace in finding the nanny because I was starting to get a bit worried! - and we'll just cobble things together till Christmas time arrghh)

Fox - I think there are swings and roundabouts - we never have a tax issue with nannies out here in the sticks, but it is impossible getting them to come and work for you to start with - tax or no tax - because they all want to work in London!

I did work tax-free when I was in Brussels cos it was short term and the requirements over there are astronomical. my current job was supposed to be unregistered for tax for the trial month then nanny tax but still three months in no word, lost the job a week age so no point in bringing it up. wish I could find an employer who actually want to sort out tax/ni and stuff!

you are in my neck of the woods Miss Moosh but I know you want full time!

where in london are you?

If it is north london, i know a fantastic lady whose job finishes today.