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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

and I thought employing a nanny wouldn't be that difficult. Growl at everyone who pays their nanny cash in hand...

44 replies

foxinsocks · 22/11/2007 08:06

grrrr

so have got a shortlist having read through lots of CVs

have a chat with a few of them

one says outright she doesn't want a job where she pays tax (so she's off my list) - she was the one best qualified and the most suitable

second one's visa runs out too soon for my liking

3 and 4 are both doing nanny work already where, essentially, they are being treated like au pairs (so yet again, not paying tax).

I refuse to pay like that so I've had to say no to them too.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

islandofsodor · 26/11/2007 22:24

Niftynanny. You are loosing out on your emplyers NI contributions.

You should approach the INland Revemiue as they can not only make your employer cough up, they can backdate it too. It isn;t up to your employer to decide that you are self employed. The law says that nannies are employees and therefore your employer MUST pay your NI. You could lose out on important benefits.

juliewoolie · 26/11/2007 22:42

I am shocked at this - I nannied for 12 years and have always paid tax and NI even in temp jobs, its always the employers responsibilitie and I made sure it was written into my contracts. I would imagine if you are using gumtree etc this might be your problem. I know you have to pay an agency but at least that way you can get a qualified nanny with experience who will be expecting to be above board.

I for one am glad I kept my contributions up even when I worked in Ireland for a year my contributions there were taken into account when I returned to the UK so I could claim my stat mat pay.

Good luck in your search, I can recommend several good London agencies if you want.

Surr3ymummy · 28/11/2007 13:58

I pay our Nanny a gross wage and do it all above board. What is currently annoying me is that my Nanny has recently increased from 2 days a week to 3 days a week, and I can no longer pay her using the Simplified scheme online on the HMRC website and have to go to a full PAYE scheme, as we've exceeded the payment threshold!

So after a number of calls to HMRC I've a vague idea of what I've got to do - and will work it out somehow! However, they don't exactly make it easy which they should do to encourage more people to pay properly...

TT3 · 28/11/2007 16:18

Minty - I am in Andover - looking for nanny one or two days a week - do you think your "perfect in every way" temp nanny would be interested? Also - what do you pay per hour (if you dont mind me asking?!) V new to this and not sure if "out here" its cheaper than London?

TT3 · 28/11/2007 16:23

That was Mintydixcharrington I am looking for - hope you are still on this although back at work?! SOOO need your unemployed nanny near Hungerford!

EricL · 28/11/2007 16:43

I had the same issue. A lot of the ones we interviewed wanted cash in hand.

As soon as this was established they were out of the door.

They don't seem to understand that as they are being entrusted with our kids, we don't really want someone who is doing something illegal, could get us as employers into big trouble, and is not paying their way in society.

It doesn't really give the impression of general responsibilty does it?

Altough - as someone who has had experience with the HMRC's systems and paperwork now, i can understand why some of us do this.

It is an absolute nightmare to pay as it is so confusing and complex. We always got the amounts wrong even though we thought we were careful - had rebates and demands in equal measures, and still get letters from them cos they think that we are still employers even though it ended two years ago and we have told them this about a dozen times.

They don't do themselves any favours at all.

The only real help they offer is for you to attend workshops. Pretty useless if you are employing a nanny as this in itself implies that you are working full-time and don't have time spare to do that.

SquiffyonSnowballs · 28/11/2007 17:04

surreymummy I found a lot of the HMRC 'help' was anything but helpful (and I'm a qualified accountant and should understadn it all!). Found the interactive CD the worst of all.

Easiest way for me is to do everything long-hand (and believe me it is not because I am scared of PC's or anything), get the P11 sheets and fill in step by step, referring where necc to the handbooks that you can print off the net. It is actually very easy (especially if you pay gross) once you take a deep breath and actually plunge in. And the employer helpline people are extremely supportive (if you can't work anything out you can just phone and give them the details and they do the calcs there and then for you - eg they'll give you a taxcode to use and tell you which tables etc etc - you can also call them up and ask them to doublecheck your calulations frothe year and they'll tell you if you've got it right or wrong)

Original poster

foxinsocks · 28/11/2007 17:12

thanks everyone

yes, I too am an accountant - I actually imagine if you didn't have some understanding of tax, trying to work out (accurately) your own monthly PAYE for HMRC would be difficult!

We have postponed the search for now. The one person who initially turned us down has now rethought and come back to us and said yes but I'm annoyed by the whole thing and my youngest sister wants to come and stay for January so I've asked her to help out (and we can see what it's like having someone else in the house). It may be that we have to give up on the nanny idea and go for something like an au pair (which is far from ideal for us because we only have 1 bathroom and a very small house!).

OP posts:

GloriaInEleusis · 28/11/2007 19:16

Foxy, have you tried signing up on nanny share websites? You might find someone who has a live in nanny/au pair who could work for you too? Or check the nanny ads in gumtree and see if anyone in your neck of the woods posting an ad might fancy offering a share. thenannysharers.co.uk is currently offering free membership to mumsnetters so can't hurt to post an ad.

two kids, two adults, and one au pair in one bathroom. Oh dear... you'll have ti install shifts. Hope you have a big hot water heater.

mintydixcharrington · 29/11/2007 16:54

sorry ttc, just saw this
"perfect nanny" was looking for a full time job, and I got a call from someone yesterday picking up a ref so it looks like she has found one, hurrah! She deserves a great one.
I'm not sure what hourly rates are around here - um I pay £350net pw for 10.5 hours a day x 5 days a week (but I have got a LOT of children)
can you do the maths on that?!

GloriaInEleusis · 29/11/2007 19:33

Hey minty, how's the job?

mintydixcharrington · 29/11/2007 22:16

v good so far! although haven't really started it properly yet. had day 2 today.

TT3 · 04/12/2007 09:40

Thanks Minty
Sounds like you have got yourself a bargain to be honest. I've even got a mothers help with 3 months childcare experience asking me for £8 (net!!!) an hour (I have ONE ds who is not even walking yet and there wont be much sole charge!!)
Ah well - not rushing into anything methinks!
Thanks again. Great help.

NiftyNanny · 04/12/2007 11:06

Surely if I'm registered as self employed, ie, making all the contricutions myself, I won't be missing out on any?
If I was a builder, I wouldn't expect every job I did to hire me and pay employers contributions.

I think I'll declare some of my babysitting for other families so I am not seen to be working exclusively for one family.

I would like to start a family within 8 years or so - don't want to miss out on any maternity benefits!

When I called the Inland Revenue about it, and explained I was a nanny working for one family, they were pretty much, Oh well if you're self employed you're self employed. They didn't seem bothered about it.

Plus, I think I'd lose my job if I tried to make any changes to the arrangement, none of us pare amazingly well off.

NAB3littlemonkeys · 04/12/2007 11:08

I feel for the employers though. They are paying tax on money that has already been taxed but hey, that's the law.

frannikin · 04/12/2007 14:24

Not if the nanny is approved and you use a salary sacrifice scheme, NAB3!

Rules on self-employment are not even understood by HMRC methinks. Thing is that full-time permanent nannies don't choose their own hours or days so technically can't be self-employed. Temps and MNs do choose so they can be self-employed. General rule is if you can decide that you're going to take six weeks off in the three months time and you can then you're self-employed. If you have to ask someone before you can do that then you're not. At least that's what the "helpful" chap at HMRC said.

TT3 - that's insane! I don't get that daytime! When I had 3 months experience I was on about £4 an hour net....

NAB3littlemonkeys · 04/12/2007 16:16

Oh, that's new from when I was nannying then.

frannikin · 04/12/2007 18:58

Yeah, only came in about 3 or 4 years ago - used to be the SureStart scheme but Ofsted's taken over. That's how you can now get Ofsted registered nannies (although none of us see any point because we don't benefit, it's purely for employers)

nannynick · 05/12/2007 00:13

There has been a v.little benefit - my local council has now added me to their internal list of childcare providers - I got a newsletter from them! Never know, one day they may work out how to add me to ChildcareLink/ICHiS.

But hey, it may mean I get sent the training booklet - and may even qualify for a place on courses... yet to get the trainning book, or details about funding though - so time will tell if all Ofsted Registered Childcare Providers are treated equally by Children's Information Service / EYDCP.

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