Do we pay a nanny who must self-isolate when she returns from holiday? What does the law say?

[ParentOfOne]

Our nanny went on holiday to a country which was in the safe corridor list (or whatever it's called) when she left, but now has been removed, so she must now self-isolate for 2 weeks when she comes back. Which of course means we have to arrange childcare for 2 weeks and we have no idea how, but that's a separate story.

The question is: do English (we are in England) employment law or government regulations dictate if she is entitled to her salary?

For the record, we paid her full salary when she was in furlough, but by going on holiday abroad I think she was reckless, she knew this might have happened, so I don't see why I should be paying for a risk she was aware of but decided to ignore.

Thanks!

A good relationship depends on both sides being fair and considerate to the other party. Successful working arrangements are not totally dependent on the employer agreeing to anything/pay regardless. For me it is a matter of respect and consideration, and that works both ways.

If she had some time ago flagged to you that a family member was dying in another country and this was perhaps her only chance to see them. A window of time, of course it would be reasonable to consider her position differently, if she was caught out suddenly in a quarantine destination.

If she has simply booked a cheap deal in hope that she would lucky and not have to quarantine then that is a different matter entirely. When she boarded the plane did she not think of you, the children and her working obligations? I can't think she is a 'great' nanny is she gave you no thought and decided to go anyway. That speaks volumes actually.

Most employees care about their jobs, particularly ones that depend on them for their own livelihoods etc and involve small children.

I would be very far from impressed op.

A good relationship depends on both sides being fair and considerate to the other party. Successful working arrangements are not totally dependent on the employer agreeing to anything/pay regardless. For me it is a matter of respect and consideration, and that works both ways.

I really think this is true and much better expressed than my comment earlier. There's this slightly patronising view of nannies, cleaners etc that we have to bend over backwards for them, but not that it works both ways. The relationship between employer and employee, particularly when someone is in your home and with your family, is a delicate one and requires both parties to be engaged and appropriate.

I always paid my nanny full pay when she was ill. But she was seldom ill, always did her best to accommodate and give me notice and when she did take time off for being ill, there was never any doubt in my mind that she was genuinely unable to come in. Mutual respect and flexibility.

Is she a good, reliable nanny? do you want to keep her long term? then do the right thing and pay her...I don't see the point of not paying a couple of weeks' wage and risk losing your help if you really value her and having to find someone else which be more hassle and will also cost you in the end.

If you don't mind losing her and having to find someone else, then don't.

Also, did she go abroad to visit family members? in which case you should be understanding as well.

As for childcare during those two weeks, your employers would be understanding if you or your partner asked to work from home or took some leave during that period. After all you can't always rely on someone else to be there to look after your own children. Harsh but true.

Has she asked to be paid or haven’t you had the conversation yet?. I understand the position you are in with childcare and your need not to upset her but most organisations are not paying employees who have to quarantine after a holiday and in your shoes I wouldn’t be paying her whilst she is unable to work.
Had the boot been on the other foot and it was you that needed to quarantine because you’d chosen to holiday abroad, then paying her would be the right thing to do, but she has brought the need to quarantine on herself.
If I was the nanny I wouldn’t be expecting to be paid, but then again I wouldn’t have chosen to holiday abroad in the current situation. I think that by paying her you may as well write the word mug on your head in capital letters and it will leave you open to being exploited in other ways in the future.

I'd give her the option of using any holiday left to cover it, otherwise I wouldn't pay. She knew the risk and decided it was worth taking, so on her head be it. What if it happened again?

I wouldn’t pay her, she used annual leave of its unpaid. She knows that quarantining suddenly is a possibility, regardless of where she went, and she took that chance

I would be very surprised if she even expected full pay op. I wouldn't in her position.

"As for childcare during those two weeks, your employers would be understanding if you or your partner asked to work from home or took some leave during that period."

That's quite an assumption to make!

Also, working from home with such a small child who needs constant care is impossible, and people asking to do that while, in fact, not working much at all, is one of the reasons why working from home had such a bad reputation pre-covid

In your place, I doubt I'd pay her. You did the decent thing during lockdown but we all know the risks of travelling abroad at the moment. If you make yourself unavailable for work then the consequence is you don't get paid. Plan how you'll have the conversation as it might not go over well, I think it's fair though.

The law says that she is unavailable to work her contracted hours at her contracted place of work (working from home not being available for this employee) for reasons other than sickness. She has presumably failed to give notice or request this period in writing in advance.
What does your contract say about other types of leave? I am guessing nothing and that you don’t have an employee policy for absences? Check contract just in case.
In the absence of any contractual entitlement to “duvet days”/ leave without notice, she is required to work but cannot by (non-employment) law do so, for reasons that she would have been aware.
That makes it unauthorised leave without notice and up to you to agree how to deal with it. I wouldn’t suggest disciplinary action unless you expressly discussed this in advance and had reached agreement that she wouldn’t travel to risky areas.
How much accrued holiday does she have left and is any of it her time allocation? What’s your contractual entitlement to designate her holiday time? Suspect you have to give her notice for that. That leaves you with reaching agreement on taking paid holiday / unpaid leave. You must be aware that if she takes it as holiday and that leaves her without any holiday allowance for your designated holiday days, you’ll be left with having to pay her then (so - unpaid leave).
If there’s even a day of work she can do from home (sewing on ever single damn name tape?) then get her to work from home for a day.

@flibbertmygibbert

I’m a teacher and I don’t know a single other teacher who has gone abroad due to the risk of quarantine and missing the start of school. If you have a job which relies on you actually being there and not working from home, then you shouldn’t be going abroad.

Then I don't think you know enough teachers.

I don't know a single one who hasn't been abroad!

@RaspberryRuff

Loving the “morally you should pay her” posts. No you shouldn’t. She is unavailable for work, she’s not sick, so she needs to take unpaid leave, or perhaps if she has more holiday she can take that. People on here seem to not realise that there’s radical concept where to get paid for work you actually have to turn up and do some work. 🙄

I agree with you - if i dont go to work, i dont get paid, thats the way of the world

@Dozer I mean, there is the suggestion that OP made about the nanny not looking after her child as well if she doesn't pay her...

@MidnightCitrus you called?

(Sorry, couldn't resist )

[quote TheWayOfTheWorld]@MidnightCitrus you called?

(Sorry, couldn't resist )[/quote]
haha!!

As a nanny I would not expect payment from my employer if this circumstance was to happen to me. Once quarantine started being imposed on travellers returning from aboard then anyone going after that point to anywhere outside of the country knew that there was a risk of quarantine being imposed. It is even possible with travel to Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland... anything is possible now. We travel at our own risk.

I think it should be unpaid leave. I expect your payroll provider will tell you that too, though I would be interested to know what your payroll provider does suggest. Could you pay something... sure I expect payroll can come up with something to put it under. Should you pay... no, not in my opinon.

OP, I think the objectors are seeking the word "nanny" and hearing the word "loaded". I wonder how they would react if they turned up at the nursery to find a note on the door saying "on hols - you'll have to sort yourselves out - BTW, keeping your payment on account. See you in a fortnight".

I'm sure she'll understand but if not, there are other nannies out there.

I am a nanny and I wouldnt expect to be paid in this situation. It was her choice to go away and with that came a risk of isolating. It would be different if she was visiting family i think.

But i have to say I am appalled at you insinuating that she would become 'sloppy' and not take care of your child as well if you don't pay her.
As a professional nanny, I have had employers annoy me in the past, usually minor blips, but I have never let it interfere with my care for the children. It is my job and a job I pride myself in.

"But i have to say I am appalled at you insinuating that she would become 'sloppy'"

Be appalled all you like. I am not accusing her of something that hasn't happened, I am saying it's a risk I want to minimise.
Not everyone is as scrupulous as you, so what is there to be appalled?

Anyway, in the end we went with one weed leave plus one week of payments equivalent to statutory sick pay, even though she's not entitled to that.

Partner and I will take 3 days off each, 1 day we'll get help from friends, and for 3 days we'll need some kind of last-minute babysitter

So she booked a cheap holiday which means she probably booked it after March

Then no she shouldn’t get paid

We had to cancel our wedding and honeymoon

I would love to go away for a few days sun but can’t afford to possibly self isolate as both myself and fiancé are self employed

We can’t even find a few days in uk as all are silly money

She took a risk and you shouldn’t have to pay even see last reply you are

Also as child is too young to talk - means she hasn’t been with you 2yrs so you could if need be dismiss her But if usually a good nanny and you are happy then a stern chat

Tho this should have been Discussed before holiday

I think she was wrong to go abroad on holiday

I dont think you have a moral obligation to pay her at all! Especially as you paid her fully throughout furlough.
I'd suggest she takes it as annual leave if she wants to?

I work for hsbc. If I had to isolate in these circumstances then I either have to take annual leave or unpaid time off.

Don’t pay.
She’s a CF