Do we pay a nanny who must self-isolate when she returns from holiday? What does the law say?

[ParentOfOne]

Our nanny went on holiday to a country which was in the safe corridor list (or whatever it's called) when she left, but now has been removed, so she must now self-isolate for 2 weeks when she comes back. Which of course means we have to arrange childcare for 2 weeks and we have no idea how, but that's a separate story.

The question is: do English (we are in England) employment law or government regulations dictate if she is entitled to her salary?

For the record, we paid her full salary when she was in furlough, but by going on holiday abroad I think she was reckless, she knew this might have happened, so I don't see why I should be paying for a risk she was aware of but decided to ignore.

Thanks!

I wouldn’t pay her. She knew (or should have known) the risks when she chose to go abroad.

Morally, she had every right to go. It is her life and she gets to make her own decisions.

Legally, you don't have to pay.

So don't pay, and don't judge.

www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/using-holiday/self-isolating-after-return-to-uk

This is acas guidance on furloughing quarantined employees, but I have also read that this advice may be incorrect, so if you follow it you run the risk of having your CVJRS claim declared unlawful.

Now the parents will be out of pocket because she wanted a beach holiday
We dont know that at all, youve added that yourself. Op has repeatedly refused to say whether the nanny was on holiday or visiting family for some reasons.

You didn't claim the government payments for furloughed staff?
Also an interesting point.

Most companies I know aren't paying in this situation.

Even if I had the money I wouldn't go abroad, the risk of this happened is far too high.

Furlough pay was capped at 80%. I'm assuming OP topped it up to 100% to give them full pay

I’m a teacher and I don’t know a single other teacher who has gone abroad due to the risk of quarantine and missing the start of school. If you have a job which relies on you actually being there and not working from home, then you shouldn’t be going abroad.

Furlough pay was capped at 80%. I'm assuming OP topped it up to 100% to give them full pay

OP states she paid full salary through furlough. What that has to do with isolation pay I've no idea.

Personally I think you should have made plans for this situation before she left. You said she knew the risks, you also knew the risks so why didn't you l have a conversation with her before to either let her know she wouldn't be paid if she had to quarantine on return or that she'd get half pay or ssp etc.
Personally I think it depends on how much you value her, is she's a fantastic nanny and you couldn't bare to do anything to rock the boat with her then pay her. If you don't mind rocking the boat, don't pay but prepared for a backlash she may not take it well as you're only just saying it now.

She does not live with us and she did not go to her home country, just a place where she had found a cheap holiday but she has no connection to.

I think it was reckless because her partner is a self-employed tradesman who obviously cannot work from home, and I suspect he will continue to go to work, and ignore the quarantine rule. It was reckless because, her aside, going on holiday meant the risk that the breadwinner (her partner) would have risked remaining two weeks without income.

No matter how mad I am, I also have to 'keep her happy' to an extent, because she looks after a small child who can't talk and can't tell us if she behaves like a . What I am trying to say is that it's more important to keep her happy than, say, a cleaner who looks after inanimate objects! That's why I think one week of leave + one week of some "goodwill" payment should be a decent compromise.

@flibbertmygibbert

I’m a teacher and I don’t know a single other teacher who has gone abroad due to the risk of quarantine and missing the start of school. If you have a job which relies on you actually being there and not working from home, then you shouldn’t be going abroad.

I always think ‘i dont know anyone who has so nobody could have’ is such a weird argument. Im also a teacher and i know lots of teachers who have been abroad this summer. And some are abroad now. Turkey seems to be the location of choice this year. Some Greece.

I don't think there is a moral obligation to pay her at all

We are not going abroad this year for precisely this reason and she decided to take the risk knowing that she may be quarantined

I think she should take either annual leave or unpaid leave OP

Couldn't she have returned earlier?

I agree with others that she should take it as leave, and shouldn't be paid for it.
Sorry if I missed it, but did she even ask to be paid?

It's a good point that we want to keep good employees, but employees should also want to keep good employers.

I also have to 'keep her happy' to an extent, because she looks after a small child who can't talk and can't tell us if she behaves like a .

If you don't trust her to look after a small child if you and she disagree on something then you have a much bigger problem than isolation pay.

This is happening where my husband works and its unpaid leave. Which I agree with. We knew the possible risks of going abroad and the ever changing rules. Also how it impacts other, in your case, uncovered childcare. Where will she go to quarantine?

@Shesapunkpunk

Was it a holiday? Or was she seeing family/going home?

Doesn't matter you choose to work in a foreign country you take the consequences. I would never work or emigrate abroad for that reason.

No matter how mad I am, I also have to 'keep her happy' to an extent, because she looks after a small child who can't talk and can't tell us if she behaves like a . What I am trying to say is that it's more important to keep her happy than, say, a cleaner who looks after inanimate objects!
What exactly are you saying here? Are you implying your nanny might hurt your child if you refuse to pay her? Quite a serious accusation so I just want to be clear.

It's pretty standard that you don't get paid if you've been abroad and have to quarantine. We had an email stating this and is why I've cancelled a weekend away as who knows what the situation will be.

I also think you need to look for a new nanny, you sound like you are scared of what she would do if you don't pay her, that is not a good person to leave a child with!

Also did you not have this conversation with her before she left?

So you have already decided you don't want to pay her, but have gone to mumsnet for advice rather than seeking actual legal advice?

No, I wouldn’t pay her. Regardless of when booked everyone knew before leaving the country the risks.

She’s left you now with no childcare for two weeks. I’d be very cross at that.

"OP states she paid full salary through furlough. What that has to do with isolation pay I've no idea."

What I meant was that I was, if not generous, at least fair when it came to circumstances outside her control. But this is not outside her control, this is a risk she took willingly.

I agree that putting her on furlough to cover the 2 weeks would be morally, if not legally wrong, it would be an abuse of the system that would burden all taxpayers - not fair.

BTW, she did mention she knows of other nannies whose families blatantly abused the system, putting them on furlough but asking them to come anyway; especially the foreign nannies with no savings were, understandably, too scared to report the abuse. It makes me furious that my tax money goes towards these abuses, but it's a totally separate discussion.

@Pebblexox, we did debate a lot whether we should have been clearer with her on how to handle this very case. In the end, we decided not to bring it up because we felt this would have alienated her over something which may or may not have happened. In retrospect, it was a mistake and we should have done it.

@muffin21

I agree with you OP it's a risk your Nanny knew was there when going abroad. My work place have said we'll get full pay for the quarantine IF the holiday was booked before March 31st, if we've chosen to book a holiday abroad after that date it's totally on us as we know the situation so therefore it's unpaid.

If your Nanny has had the holiday booked since before the UK went into lockdown I'd be inclined to pay her, however if she has chosen to book it recently she knows the risk so should get SSP at most.

I think this seems sensible - personally I wouldn't feel obliged to pay her if she isn't available to work.

"What exactly are you saying here? Are you implying your nanny might hurt your child if you refuse to pay her?"
No, no, no, no, I am of course not saying that. It goes without saying that, if we suspected that, she would have been fired regardless of the cost. I am saying that a resentful employee might not give 100% and might be a bit more sloppy, that's all.

"So you have already decided you don't want to pay her, but have gone to mumsnet for advice rather than seeking actual legal advice?"
Not quite. I will also be contacting NannyTax for advice and, if needed, an employment lawyer, but I hope it won't come to that.
There is a difference between asking for unsubstantiated opinions from non-legal experts, and asking if the government has provided explicit guidance, if you know of a specific law on this, if you have received specific legal advice on this type of cases, etc.

In all honesty, it doesn't sound like you place much value on her anyway. So maybe just go with the legal standpoint and don't pay her at all, then it's up to her if she wants to remain employed by you or not.