childcare nightmare - really could do with some advice

[Lazycow]

A bit of background so appologies for the length

My ds (2.10yrs) has recently been having a set back in his potty training. He had a UTI then we went on holiday all about 6 weeks after we started potty training so I thought it was pretty normal and didn't stress too much. When we got back from holiday, I agreed with the cm to put ds back in pullups. I don't particularly like them but my cm was worried about the accidents. He was having at least 1 (often more a day) when we got back from holiday (and we had been doing so well before then sigh!)

Anyway after a week we both agreed to take the pullups off as he had definitely improved. Now three weeks later he is definitely almost there at home (no accidents in a week and asking to go - only needing reminding/prompting occasionally)

He is however having a lot more accidents with the cm (he is there 4 days a week)which I think she is finding frustrating as she had another 2 year old and a 1 year old baby.

Last week I went to pick up ds and she cornered me in what was quite a confrontational way and said among other things that ds was being lazy and willful and that we needed to go back to pullups and to not keep asking/reminding him as he had to learn to ask for himself. She also told me I was 'doing it all wrong' when I asked ds if he needed a wee. I said I'd heard set backs were normal after holidays and she practically shouted 'its'not normal'

I found all this pretty annoying but tried to be conciliatory as this was very out of character for her and we usally get on very well.

I was happy to not remind etc and if she really felt it necessary for her to use pullups but I said I wouldn't use them at home as I felt it was a backward step and he was improving at home.

At this she threw up her hands and said we wouldn't get anywhere like that and that he would still be like this at 4 at this rate.
She went into the living room and started getting the children ready for the school run. I took that as signal to leave and have to admit I was pretty stunned and shaking when I left.

I later called her from work and asked that we meet (without children obviously) to sort this out and also to say I was picking ds up early.

When I got there to collect him and asked her when would be a good time to talk about our disagreement she was furious with me and accused me of slamming her door on my way out. If I did slam it, it was genuinly not intentional as I was more stunned than angry, so I may have let the door go and not closed it as carefully as I normally would.

I appolgised sincerely for the door but asked again when we could talk about what had happened. She told me she wasn't ready to talk and that she would let me know when she was ready.
I said we needed to talk face to face before Monday and she needed to let me know when and then I left. I was incredibly upset at the time as I found her attitude quite bewildering.This was on Thursday so I was left me not knowing where we stood.
She then rang on Friday and said she would be happy to talk about ds but would prefer to leave the talk for a couple of weeks as she didn't feel it would be very productive before then. I replied that we needed to talk about it before ds went back to her as I couldn't leave him with her if we can't communicate.

Ds is supposed to be starting a sessional nursery this week which she will take him to

I've tried several local day nurseries none of which have availabiliy for 4 days a wee k at the moment. The ones that do have space are the less good ones (not surprisingly)

Dh is off work today and tomorrow but is madly busy from then on. I am off Weds/Thurs (was going to take ds and collect from his new nursery to settle him in)

What the hell do I do? I am not aginst sending ds to nursery but stopping so abruptly and replacing a cm with 4 days a week of full time nursey (even if I could find one with spaces by next week) without a settling in period seems too much for ds.

As it is I'll probably have to drop the sessional nursery and have no idea whether to settle him there this week or not.

What a mess

CM has since called and agreed to meet today - I'm not sure what I am going to say to her.

OMG, I'm [shocked] at her behaviour. I must go and do lunch (I shouldn't have popped on here ) but will come back and answer when the children are eating.

For now, I think:

1. Accidents ARE normal at this age, even my 4 yr old has accidents. Out of interest, is she used to girls? If so, then she needs to know that boys ARE slower at this stuff, not that this means it's because he's a boy. I quite often remind 4 yr old ds, 4 yr old mindee (not here now), 3 yr old mindee. Also, it's more normal for them to have more accidents with me than at home imo as we have much more going on here (like more people etc) and they quite often don't want to stop playing.

2. She was unprofessional, belittling and rude

3. If using NCMA contracts, you will both have signed to say you must be available to discuss issues when necessary. It's usually hard to pin parents down, she should have agreed straight away to talking about it

4. She shouldn't be telling you how to do things at home. She can give advice of how to help things and yes, sometimes it's very frustrating when a parent doesn't follow the same thing as it can set kids back if we're getting somewhere however this one is the other way round, she's setting you guys back

Must dash, she's out of order!!!!

Thanks LM

I think she is finding having 3 young children under 3 too much and that is probably why she blew up at me but it would have been better if she had given me official notice. As it is I am left with no time to find any substitute childcare and I'm panicking a bit !

Think you have been very calm about all of this, I think I would have expolded at her, obviously your ds is having more accidents with her than with you, so why, is it cos there are other kids, more distracted busy doing other things, doing it for attention, if she is struggling with the kids then. Or worst case scenario is he nervous around her. I think you need to calmly establish what is happening and whether you can go forward, I would be very worried about her thinking he is lazy and willful and I would have to remind her that you are his mum and you must decide how you parent him at home, and how he is cared for at her house is up for discussion between the two of you. As for going into a nursery it depends on the nursery, I wouldnt go for a slightly worse one it will just give you more hassle on the long run, look for one where staff have worked there for a while and seem happy in the job.

i know there is always two sides to every story, but whatever her reason for speaking to you in this way, be it her not managing well with 3 babies, she was totally unproffedional and more importantly, un-human!..its HER problem if any child ahs accident when theyre with her, she knows what YOU do, she needs to follow..if she cant because she has bitten off more than she can chew with other children, she should be looking at what to do, not making you feel like you want to leave, shes no adult behaving this way and i petty and unproffesional in her manner and the way she has 'needed time' to speak to you!..get some alternative help..QUICK! as your ds wont be happy here now and you wont be happy taking him!

look on the cis website and see if there are any childminders with places for him. then go and have a look at the ones you like the sound of best. i'm sure there will be some with spaces esp as they have all gone back to school.

I echo the responses of the others. Childminders should work around what you would like to happen. They cant please everyone all of the time, but they can compromise and they can certainly discuss things through.
Is this the first disagreement between you? If it is, maybe she was feeling ill on that day (I get very grouchy when ill) and now she doesn't know how to rectify it. If this is the end of a long line of problems then day good ridance and though it can seem a real trial trying to sort out new arrangements somewhere else at short notice it will be worth it in the end.

This is our first disagreement and I thought we generally were doing fine. Ds has been there for 2 years now so he knows her well and seems happy there (or at least he did until a couple of months ago)

I think I am going to try and resolve this with an open and honest conversation with her. If she seems genuinely to regret the way she spoke but is willing to move on then so am I. A lot will depend on her attitude towards me I suppose. Up until now she hasn't said anything in any of our (admitedly hurried) conversations that indicate she thinks she has done anything wrong.

In the meantime I am going to check out other options. I would be happy to try another childminder but I don't want to ask anyone yet until I am sure ds is not going to go back there at all as I don't want to risk another local childminder telling her I am making enquiries before I have made a final decision.

You sound very very patient, perhaps she was just having an off day even though if that was the case she should have apologised. It was childish of her to behave the way she did (saying she would speak when ready etc) hear her out and make the decision based on what is best for your son (as i'm sure you will do, you sound like a lovely mummy!)

fwiw I agree with you about taking the pull up's away, you are his mum and you know your son best so if you think he is ready then he is ready.

Spend this week while you and dh are with him encouraging him with his potty training so that when he returns to her he is more confident and i dont think he should be asking for the toilet i think she should be taking him regardless of wether he thinks he wants to go or not as COD says in her potty training boot camps you do not ask you take (or something like that) my friend who is a nursery worker currently potty training 8 2yr olds says you just take them by the hand and ask them to try every now and again and they either do it or they dont.

ring CIS they will enquire about cm's with vacancies on your behalf and they give no personal info out..at least you would have a short list to work on when time comes?

when you ring up the childminder you don't have to say who you are so it wouldn't get back to her. what area are you in?

you can search for cms with places on this website

Thanks everyone

You are all being lovely. I think I will call some cms anyway. I have just checked out the website nappyaddict linked to and have noticed that my cm is showing a full time place available - updated on 20/9/07 - the day of the disagreement!!

I know she doesn't have a place for a FT child as she is only registered for 3 children and has two on three days a week and ds on 4 days a week already. I think that shows she isn't really committed to working this out after all. I have made an appointment to talk to her on Thurs but in the meantime I'm going to call some other cms

What is CIS by the way ?

Ah just realised the website is CIS - Childcare Information Service

Duhhh!!

Glad you are looking at options as she's been out of order! Just wanted to let you know though that the date on the database is the date it gets updated but it updates over night so the earliest she could have updated it is the day before. Some people round here put 1 full time vacancy, even if just 1 day a week available.

And anyway, if you leave I would have thought she'd be better off NOT filling that vacancy - sounds like she can't cope!!

I have my off days where I'm really stressed after having 4 under 5's if they have been playing up HOWEVER I still open the door with a smile, may make a comment like 'oh, what a day, cheeky so and so's etc' but nothing more than that and that would only get said it it has been VERY bad. Her inability to cope is NOT your problem and the way she spoke to you is shocking!!!

Lazycow, ring her up, pretend you dont know her and say you are looking for new cm as your current one is unco operative, unproffesioanl cretin and you need someone with an ounce of compasion..better still ask her next time you see her, say your friend was looking for a space and she noticed you have ONE available now?, is this right??..i would !

PMSL!!! Seriously, sounds great if you have the guts!

My thoughts are he's still pretty young, pull ups are the same as nappies as far as the child is concerned (i.e a waste of time) and she sounds a bit over emotional. Personally, I think she has too many little ones to look after. Good luck with whatever you decide.

ill ring her for you sneaky mare..actually TBH if you do decide to leave and i think you should i wouldnt give her normal notice and explain it away by saying her behaviour was unreasonable making you feel you HAD to remove your ds and the fact she had already advertised your ds's space whilst still there was breaking your contract agreement!

Someone at my work has already offered to ring her for me and pretend to be looking for a place to see what she says and a part of me wants to but I'm not sure I should go down that route.

I think I've pretty much decided to move ds anyway but I will speak to her on Thurs as agreed and see what she says. In the meantime I'm looking at nurseries and alternative child minders.

well try and preapre yourself with questions you want to ask cos she may either get stroppy or teary depending on what mood shes in on thurs, so youll need composure and remember how she treat you/spoke to you when shes feeling sorry for herself!

Lazycow, you are right to get rid of her. Sounds like she cannot cope with potty training and would prefer not to have the hassle. Cheeky mare to advertise - did she think you would not find out?

When you check with other nurseries and cms, find out their policies on how to help with pottytraining.

Our nursery was great. Did not push to start, did everything cheerfully once we were ready, filled in all my charts and stuck all those stickers on. Even for other boys who were still training at 3+.

If you can't get your 4 days right away and have an extra room, maybe consider an aupair to fill in the gaps. Your ds is 2.10 and if he communicates well, might be an option. Go for one with a lot of childcare experience with young children and good references - pay her more if necessary. Going rate is about £55-65 per week + food and lodging.

oh, meant to add, the going rate I quoted for an aupair is for 25 hours a week and 2 nights babysitting. Obviously you can make her do more hours, if she agrees, and pay more. If you can't get childcare on a day or two, you could concentrate her hours into those slots, plus get her to do the school run as well. Just a thought.

Hi, i have a little boy of 4 and 12 weeks pregnant and i am a childminder, i felt i needed to tell you that as a childminder myself it is so wrong what she has done she should be there to support you in what you decide is best for your child, your right in the fact there is no point you trying at home and her putting pull ups on him there it is only going to confuse him. I currently look after 3 under 5s and my own son makes 4 and yes some days are hard but its her job to cope and get on with things. My advice get a new childminder asap. x

I cant believe her attitude, absolutely awful!!

She should be doing as much as is practical to your wants, and anyone that has potty trained more than one child will tell you pull ups are useless, they just think they are nappy and wet them, they need to be reminded often and expect accidents for quite a while especially with a boy.

Fina new CM.

By the way what was she going to do if she filled her space, she would still need to give you notice.