Seasoned Nanny employers or Nannys am I right to be miffed.................( bit long sorry )

[mummypoppins]

Just got to work and a bit pissed off!

Our Nanny has been with us for 9 months now. She is 38 and has 20 years experience. She is orginally from England but moved to Australia when she was 3 months old so all her nannying experience is there.

She has come to England because she wants to study Homeopathy and was attracted to our job because we have 2 school age children so she has time off during the day to study.

She is paid £270 n pw ( we live in the country in the midlands ). She has her own annexe with Kitchen , shower room , Tv dvd , free broad band etc and a completely paid for 3 yr old Scenic entirely at her disposal . She does not contribute to this in anyway apart from her own diesel ( althought tbh I dont keep too much in terms of tabs on her and if she paid for her private diesel out of the kitty I would never know ). I am very naughty too as I dont declare that she has the car for private use so neither we nor her have to pay tax on it.She takes it to College ( 35 miles away ) at least 4 times a month as well as trips to London and other places at the weekend.

She has had everything that she has asked for in terms of resources..........new Kitchen stuff for her kitchen, brand new leather sofabed and pine table and chairs for her annexe and a £100 fancy screen that she wanted to make her space look nice ( DH would explode if he new ).

I lent her money ( £500 ) in the summer to pay for her college fees and pay her early if she is going away and asks ( twice in 9 months ). We took her to Centre Parcs for the weekend for free and she didnt lift a finger when we were there or pay even for a round of drinks and we didn't count it as 2 days holiday.

She went to Edinburgh for the week in May and we ferried her to and from the airport ( 240 miles ) for free.

I bought her Tiffany jewelrry for her birthday in August.

Her contracted hours at 7am to 11 and 3 to 7pm no babysitting at all except as overtime at £10 per hour with full time to cover the holidays . She is supposed to do all nursery duties, food shopping ( she has an unlimited budget for this and always buys the best as she loves expensive things...........I have never complained ). In actual fact she did a deal with my cleaner ( who does 12 hours a week ) and the Nanny now does washing and ironing and the cleaner does all the cleaning ( incl Kids stuff ).

She runs errands if I ask and feeds cats if we are away for the weekend. She does the dishwasher during the week and will put a meal in the slow cooker on a Friday for the whole family friday evening. Quite often she finishes early on a Friday as my DH doesnt work Friday pm and so he will do the school pick up and just leave her to finish off unpacking uniform and then she clocks off.

She will organise play dates but only if it suits her. In the holidays she spent an absolute fortune on going out and eating out with the children which again I never moaned about.

All in all I think ist a pretty easy job...........we live in a huge house with a lovely garden...........she has her own patio and garden furniture.............we have a swimming pool too.............if we go out for a meal en famille at the weekend or have a takeaway etc we always include her.

I have taken her shopping at the weekend never mind if she buys magazines to read for the house etc etc.

NOW TO THE CRUNCH!

This week my husband is away on business and I am particularly stretched at work so I asked her if she would cover some etxra hours. It will be 4 hours over 3 evenings........ie till 8pm 2 nights and until 9pm on Friday night. She has said no problem and confirmed that she wants to discuss how she is going to be paid for all this time she is doing.

I AM REALLY PISSED OFF. We have 2 big holiadys coming up. She is entitled to 20 days plus Bank holidays but will have 27 plus Bh unless I ask her to work when we are not around. I feel that we should be counting the axtra hours as hours in lieu.

What is every ones view. Am I being fair to her. Is it a reasonable job ?

Are all the days you have given her off days that she has asked for, or are they just days when you decided you didn't need her? What agreement do you have about who chooses her days holiday? Because I think she should have a good proportion of days that she has chosen, and a chance to have a whole week off of her choice, not just days here and there that you have decided she doesn't need to be on call.

Twiglett, an employer can (and often does) dictate when the holiday is. Many nanny employers allow the nanny to choose half of the the holiday but they are not legally required to do this.

Mummypoppins,
Oh dear. I'm afraid I don't think that letter was the best approach. If I were the nanny and had said hey I want to talk about the overtime for these days and I got the that letter in response I'd be thinking where the F did that come from? I'd show it to a few friends for their opinions (just as you have to shown it to us here for ours) and I'd ask them if they think you are overreacting just a tad.

I would have left a note that said something like:

"Nanny,
I would like to sit down and discuss our arrangements regarding your hours, overtime payment, time in lieu, etc. I'll come home early to do this on Friday so can you please arrange to have the day wrapped up by 6:00 and that will give us an hour for our chat."

If I were you and wanted to get the costs down I would tighten the reins on the expenses and miscellaneous perks you are giving her. I give my nanny £70/month for miscellaneous expenses (toddler groups, etc.) She has a mobile phone and a bus pass that will take her anywhere in greater London. I do the grocery shopping. You must spend £hundreds more than I do on entertainment and groceries alone. I expect my nanny to cook herself. I do have some convenience food in the freezer (pizza, fish pies, etc.) But, on the whole I expect nanny to whip up dinner on her own. I don't think I ever pay for them to eat out (unless it comes out of her £70 for the month but she certainly couldn't afford to do that often)

F an z. So far she has chosen all her holiday so I am not being unreasonable.One week suited us fine as we were off anyway but the other didn't..........bang in the middle of the school holidays and I had a nightmare trying to get childcare organised.

Our contract says that we are entitled to chose 2 weeks of her holiday to suit us.

Eleusis I take your point. BUT I am never home by 6pm and am so stressed at work at the moment I am finding it hard to cope with all of this. DH is away again and its always down to me yet I work much harder than him and earn more money than him. he is an Ostrich and wont deal with anything like this it is always down to me to sort.

Nanny has acted in the past as though if we are away it's just extra time off for her and I really cannot afford to pay her such a huge amount and overtime together with up 7 weeks holiday a year. Surely it is give and take and quite frankly if not then I shall put this down to experience and start again.

She might be pissed off at the letter because she knows now that if she had kept quiet about more pay I would probably have let the holidays slip. You can't have it both ways. She wants to stick straight to the contract then so will I.

think you need to get rid and start again. sorry. a more detailed contract (and you a lawyer! ) next time and far, far fewer perks. good luck it's awful when childcare arrangements are problematic, i sympathise.

I think you are right in pronciple, mummyp. I just think the situation can so easy be made worse with the written word.

But, I do absolutely sympathise and understand your trouble of having to d all the nanny managing when your DH is away. My DH is also away all week (well, Mon-Thursday) every week and I have the pleasure managing all things child and nanny related, and that includes the school. He has yet to show an interest in a parent-teacher consultation.

Do you realise you don't actually have to give 20 days hols plus bank hols? Although I believe the law is changing soon.

You could definitely scale back on the expenses. I think you are losing a lot of money there. And I wouldn't pay a live-in nanny £10 for babysitting. No way.

It does sound like your nanny is taking advantage mummypoppins. Unless she drastcially changes her behaviour as a result of your note/a chat than I would seriously think about getting a new nanny. You can't have someone working for you when she's taking you for a ride.

Thanks you have all been very supportive and yes Eleusis we should scale back on expenses.

I will talk with her when I get back tonight and see what her reaction is. DH suggested we go back to online shopping which I agree with.

NannyL made a good point that I should not see paying for her to take the children out to eat as a perk for her. BUT it is easier to eat out as we all know and a job working for anyone who is penny pinching is wearing and I just feel that we should get some credit for that.

I have allowed her a free reign because I wanted her to settle in. In the early days she would do 30 mile round trip to a different supermarket because she liked better than the one on the way home form school and I never complained about the diesel. I do not stand over her at all and dictate which surely must make for a more pleasant working environment for her ?

Just out of interest Eleusis what does your nanny do when you are away but she is not taking it as hols ? Do you just let her go ?

But these days, how do you get rid of her legally if you then employ another nanny???

I think the letter may not be perfect Mummypoppins but it's a start-best resolution for you would be that she resigns-although she may well stick like glue given the good deal you give her!

I think your let out would be to tell her that you no longer need all the hours -I think it is generally acepted that nanny hours change as the children grow. So you could offer her a new contract with fewer hours and fairer conditions(for you) and then see if she bites or runs.

I'm glad that you are taking a stand though!

Oh and our nanny gets 2 weeks off when it suits us and she can ask for 2 when she wants if we can accommodate it we do but there is no compulsion to do so.

When we are away but it is not our nanny's holidays she comes in and does a tidy up, checks the post, turns lights on/off etc, sort through old children's clothes, cleans(I have her cleaning now since DD3 is at school full time)
She still gets more time off than is in her contract though.

Right so it is acceptable to expect them to work when you are away then because as I said before I think she is just expecting it as a bonus.

As far as the letter is concerned then she had alraedy said she would be going to America when we are away at the end of October although I think she has changed her mind now so it is accepted between us that she will be taking tha week off and that she will be away with relatives for Christmas so perhaps re read with that in mind its really only the week leading up to Christmas that is the issue.

I just new that if I didnt link the 2 issues together then I would be paying her huge amounts of overtime now and it might come as areal shock to her at Christmas to be presented with a list of tasks to do when we are away. Better to be clear on these things.

Thanks for all your support I am feeling very fragile this am...........TOTM.just keep fighting back the tears at my desk. None of my bloody male colleagues at work have to deal with these things.

aaww, now don't cry! chin up! look up at the ceiling - it will stop the tears. don't worry you will work something out. good luck with the chat.

aaww, now don't cry! chin up! look up at the ceiling - it will stop the tears. don't worry you will work something out. good luck with the chat.

aaww, now don't cry! chin up! look up at the ceiling - it will stop the tears. don't worry you will work something out. good luck with the chat.

oops

Neverenough - it is a legal minefield and if anyone ever does think of changing nannies I recommend they speak to a lawyer - fortunately our nightmare nanny resigned before she was pushed but when I looked into it it was really difficult if they have been there for more than 12 months. the best way is either to restructure role (eg let's say for example you had a nanny that did 38 hours of childcare each week and then did cleaning and some of your meals on top, you could theoretically restructure it into two separate roles that needed to be done simultaeneously, thus reducing hours to just 38 and therefore resulting in a redundancy situation). If you really really need to have someone do exactly the same role and they have been there 12 months then you need to go through a formal discipline process to demonstrate nanny is not doing job satisfactorily (though I suspect this would be hell in practice), or your best bet is probably to sit down with nanny, explain that the fit isn't right and suggest you both start looking for something else, support her in her job hunt and agree on suitable references and so on. You would probably have to pay a lump sum as well. It is all so yucky, especially when they are living in your house at the same time.

mummypoppins - cat me if you need to offload stuff and have a sympathetic conversation off-line. Having gone through all of this so recently I know how stressful it all is - I have a very pressurised job in the city which I can breeze through, but because the nanny situation was so close to home (so to speak) and involved my kids I got far more wobbly about things than I ever thought possible...

Mummyp,

Groceries - We have a list on the bulletin board in the kitchen. If nanny wants something she writes it down and I buy it in the weekly shop. I will buy most any resonably price staple which is nutritious and SOME treats and convenience foods. I buy things like brown rice, pasta, tinned tomatoes, sauce packets, frozen and fresh veg, potatoes, bread, eggs, chicken breasts, minced beef, sandwich meat, cheese, milk, juice (real juice not crappy sugar water with nutrasweet), etc. Things like weight watchers desserts and kiddie yogurts, and other fun convenient tasty but not nutritious things I buy in moderation. I expect my grocery bill for the whole family including the nanny to come in under £150 per week. If you don't write what you want on the list, then I can't possibly know to buy it and you have no right to complain about it!! BTW, noone ever writes diddly squat on the list. So I choose what to buy.

Expenses - I would cap it. Say £100 per month. If she wants to go out to eat with the kids it can come from here. Ask for receipts for any expense over £5.

Car- Ask her to keep a travel log which shows the milage of each trip and where they went. This could help you understand if they are driving more than they need to. Tell her you have decided to do your part in saving the environment and the first step is to not take unnecessary car trips.

Holidays - If I was going away and there was work to be done, I would ask her to do it. If it is just one day off, I might say these clothes over here need sorting and the toys here are a mess. If you can straighten them up by noon you can have the rest of the day off. (and give her tasks that reasonably could be done in half a day).

Dont worry ladies..........have alraedy spoken to our employment partner here........she has not been with us 12 months yet so we are fine.

I do not want her to go as by and large she is a very good nanny but I do need to get this overtime issue sorted.

We get on very well with her and I am sure she realises that we are not bad people to work for........but I will not have a gun held to my head over money that I do not think is due.

Who knows tomorrow we may both be looking for some one else ! If she thinks sensibly she needs a job that will fit in with her study so no requirement to work any weekends , in the Midlands because she has just registered on a course here and one that gives her the flexibilty to study during the day because from what I know she is in bed by 9pm most nights so she has little time in the evening. They must be fairly few and far between I would have thought ?

Oh, and don't feel guilty about asking her to do her job when you are not there. I assume you go to work and do your job when your boss goes on holiday. Besides, if something in her jobdescription needs doing it is because she has not done it in her day to day work. So, had she done all of her work, then there would be nothing to do and she could have the day off.

She does not have a right to the same perks that you have earned for yourself in your life. She has a right to the perks that are granted to her in her contract and in UK law.

And don't cry. I too have been where you are. It's miserable. And I do have lots of sympathy for you.

Crikey eleusis you are oragnised........My Nanny does complete the diary although some days she doesnt bother but not to that level of detail. Thanks for the tips though. Your shoping list sounds like our house.....although my nanny buys far too many sweets in my view although they are restricted to Friday night only.

Thanks squiffy I have just signed up for CAT. I may contact you later. I agree my job is in a very successful law firm and I am a full share equity partner..........its a breeze compared to this!

Thanks bossy kate..........staring at the ceiling now!

There is a bit of food control freakery goin gone in my case. I am the nutrition police for the kids. Someone has to be and no one else in my house cares. So, I police what comes in and figure if that's all there is to cook with, then they'll have to eat it.

But... I have a control freaky psycho mum moment from last week that might cheer you up. I was at JL with DD looking at tennis racquets. She wandered over to the table football and was playing with a another 4 year old. I went over and found her, 4 year old boy, and his mum. So the four of us had a go. But, I was controlling the goal and the defenders for her side. She got mad because she wanted to do it and do you want to know what I said to me 4 year old "Do you want to play or do you want to *win"?!" She's 4! And I have no doubt scarred her for life. I immediately though OMG did I just say that. I am a complete pushy competitive mum control freak.

There, now do you feel better knowing what an arse I am?

Jura Thankyou for your support.

I cannot remember but I am sure that we included in our interview 2 nights a week babysitting. When she first arrived she did a couple of Sat nights for free and then she asked to be paid £10 an hour which I did. Its only this week she has asked to be paid for time in the week. On average I suggest she works a max of an hour a week over its just that this week I asked for a little bit more.

I then checked her contract and it is not included. My fault I know and you will see I have apologosed to her. But one of things we discussed at our interview was flexibility we said we could give her because we have school age children but we needed it back because of work commitments. She seems to have forgotten this.

She is a good nanny and generally does everything I ask her. We are as you can see I feel are very generous employers...when she has babysat on a sat night she has had £50 ! Together with all the other perks I felt we had a really good relationship. Then a few weeks back she didnt turn up for work on a Monday when we were away and I got a note form my claener to say that there was no sign of Nanny so she had done all the washing and ironing. So I paid to have that done twice. Decided I di not wiah to rock the boat so left it but now feel that she wants to move away form the good relationship we seemd to have and ask for more pay so I feel compelled to sort the other issues at the same time.

Just out of interest do you expect your nanny to work whilst you are away ??