Seasoned Nanny employers or Nannys am I right to be miffed.................( bit long sorry )

[mummypoppins]

Just got to work and a bit pissed off!

Our Nanny has been with us for 9 months now. She is 38 and has 20 years experience. She is orginally from England but moved to Australia when she was 3 months old so all her nannying experience is there.

She has come to England because she wants to study Homeopathy and was attracted to our job because we have 2 school age children so she has time off during the day to study.

She is paid £270 n pw ( we live in the country in the midlands ). She has her own annexe with Kitchen , shower room , Tv dvd , free broad band etc and a completely paid for 3 yr old Scenic entirely at her disposal . She does not contribute to this in anyway apart from her own diesel ( althought tbh I dont keep too much in terms of tabs on her and if she paid for her private diesel out of the kitty I would never know ). I am very naughty too as I dont declare that she has the car for private use so neither we nor her have to pay tax on it.She takes it to College ( 35 miles away ) at least 4 times a month as well as trips to London and other places at the weekend.

She has had everything that she has asked for in terms of resources..........new Kitchen stuff for her kitchen, brand new leather sofabed and pine table and chairs for her annexe and a £100 fancy screen that she wanted to make her space look nice ( DH would explode if he new ).

I lent her money ( £500 ) in the summer to pay for her college fees and pay her early if she is going away and asks ( twice in 9 months ). We took her to Centre Parcs for the weekend for free and she didnt lift a finger when we were there or pay even for a round of drinks and we didn't count it as 2 days holiday.

She went to Edinburgh for the week in May and we ferried her to and from the airport ( 240 miles ) for free.

I bought her Tiffany jewelrry for her birthday in August.

Her contracted hours at 7am to 11 and 3 to 7pm no babysitting at all except as overtime at £10 per hour with full time to cover the holidays . She is supposed to do all nursery duties, food shopping ( she has an unlimited budget for this and always buys the best as she loves expensive things...........I have never complained ). In actual fact she did a deal with my cleaner ( who does 12 hours a week ) and the Nanny now does washing and ironing and the cleaner does all the cleaning ( incl Kids stuff ).

She runs errands if I ask and feeds cats if we are away for the weekend. She does the dishwasher during the week and will put a meal in the slow cooker on a Friday for the whole family friday evening. Quite often she finishes early on a Friday as my DH doesnt work Friday pm and so he will do the school pick up and just leave her to finish off unpacking uniform and then she clocks off.

She will organise play dates but only if it suits her. In the holidays she spent an absolute fortune on going out and eating out with the children which again I never moaned about.

All in all I think ist a pretty easy job...........we live in a huge house with a lovely garden...........she has her own patio and garden furniture.............we have a swimming pool too.............if we go out for a meal en famille at the weekend or have a takeaway etc we always include her.

I have taken her shopping at the weekend never mind if she buys magazines to read for the house etc etc.

NOW TO THE CRUNCH!

This week my husband is away on business and I am particularly stretched at work so I asked her if she would cover some etxra hours. It will be 4 hours over 3 evenings........ie till 8pm 2 nights and until 9pm on Friday night. She has said no problem and confirmed that she wants to discuss how she is going to be paid for all this time she is doing.

I AM REALLY PISSED OFF. We have 2 big holiadys coming up. She is entitled to 20 days plus Bank holidays but will have 27 plus Bh unless I ask her to work when we are not around. I feel that we should be counting the axtra hours as hours in lieu.

What is every ones view. Am I being fair to her. Is it a reasonable job ?

actually i dont see it as a problem for her to be paid overtime when you are asking her to do overtime hours.

Yes she has a nice job! but at the end of the day it seems she IS doing her job...

maybe have a word with her about play dates etc, but as far as i can read thats your only problem isnt it?

Feel free to give her a budget for the holidays and supermarket if you really want to, but dont think that becuase she took your children out for dinner during the holidays while working and doing her job, that it means you should expecther to work for free!

I dont see how going to centre parks with you was or could ahve been counted as her holiday tbh (she was NOT on holiday)... unless you said oh we are going to centre parcs and she said Really? i really want to go, can you book an even bigger villa and let me come too please

oooops firmly in my place nannyl.......so the next time she asks to borrow my credit card to order stuff over the net because she cant get one yet.............or for a lift to the airport to go on holiady to save her the £100 taxi fare.............or to be paid early because she has run out of money...........or for her Mum to come over and stay from Australia in our house......or time off for great uncle so and so's funeral ( that would be holiday in my office ) presumably you think it is reasonable for me to say no ?

mummypoppins - sounds like an aupair we had - my first one. she really and truly got herself comfortable here (and i bent over backwards to make her welcome) and we worked together as a team with the young dc at the time (2 of them then) and we seemed to get along great and i even thought she was a friend...ha. before i knew it she was ruling the roost and taking th piss in so many ways... we were a means to an end for her, but the whole experience was really quite upsetting for me.

dont let her walk all over you. if she wants to get fussy over 2 extra hgours (2 hrs fgs!!) then you can quite happily retract the friday pms, and various other perks she is not entitled to, but lucky to receive.

the shame is, you will be less inclined to be so generous for fear of opening yourself up to abuse next time.

Let me know if you are looking for a new nanny in the near future please as i live very near to worcester and need another job - they seem to be very very thin on the ground around this area

as i nanny, i am very lucky i have very generous employers and when they ask the odd favour like they are this weekend i have no problem and would never dream of asking more money..she needs to be a bit more giving!

x

we used an agency called 'mums the word' and the lady, Emma, who runs it is fantastic! Very quick and seemed to know what our family needed. We also used 2 other agencies at the same time and they were crap. They are based in Oxford and a few of our friends also used them and all are full of praise...

mummypoppins... yes i think it would be completely reasonable for you to
NOT let her use your credit card
make her use holiday for a random not close relatives funeral

Ok she asked you for a lift and you said yes, thats up to you.

BTW there is no way i would ever even ask to be paid early / use bosses credit card

You are quite entitled to say no sorry i cant take you to the airport, but you chose to say yes.

BTW you sound like a lovely employer, and it does sound like a lovely job (It really does) but just because you are nice does not mean she should not expect to be paid overtime as stated in her contract!

Yes you're right to be pissed off. And I would come and work for you, and wouldn't complain about the few extra hours. But then again I work for doctors so I'm used to getting a call saying "I'm going into emergency surgery, can you stay until I get home?". I know it's in her contract to be paid for overtime but when you've been so good to her, I can't believe she's even asking!

It just sounds like your nanny expects you to be flexible to fit around her needs and isn't being flexible herself.

I know people have said this already but for the job and the location, the pay and perks you're giving are really good. I work as a live-out nanny in the Midlands, as well as being a student, and during the vacation working full-time I wasn't taking home much more than your nanny is gettig as a weekly wage. Plus I have to account for all the money I spend and don't have use of a car.

In short, she needs to learn to give a little rather than taking all the time, and if she doesn't then get shot of her, because if she gets away with it once, she'll just keep pushing.

But Nanny L she frequently leaves early as well. It looks as if she has become used to the benefits initially given as a kindness, and now takes them for granted. I would ask her how she wants to play it. Does she want to work her contracted hours and be paid overtime or work in a flexible way with give and tyake on BOTH sides?

I'm slightly worried you're all going to think I'm mad for posting this but here goes....
Mummypoppins,..I have an au pair but I do all of this,...put myself and my family out, give much more than neccessary,..anything really to keep everyone in this home happy except myself of course. I guess I'm working on a "what goes around comes around" kind of philosophy and a fear that AP will leave, unsettle the DC etc etc but actually and I hate to say this NannyL is right. I would never behave like this at work so why do it at home? I think I've learnt something from this thread and that is just because I give (a lot!!) doesn't mean I'm going to get it back, that whatever I give, AP will probably always want more and that actually I'm just going to stick to the contract!

so true...

BUT does she leave early because she asks to or because her bosses dont need her for contracted hours?

If she is avaliable to work, but her bosses dont need her then thats not ehr fault either

(tbh if i do the odd hour here or there i dont worry about it, just because i dont... both my bosses are Drs so if they are late i understand that there are times they cant help it (my boss is a GP and we all know GPs can over run ), equally if i want to leave half an hour early for a good reason and they are around they dont make a big deal out if it either...)

yes it is give and take but if she is avaliable to work then she ought to be paid.

Equally i dont say, oh you are 20 mins late tonight, can i ahve 20mins over time... but if they said tomorrow can you do a couple of extra hours i would say fine and expect to be paid for it!

Mummypoppins, I do agree that you've been very fair and generous, but I think you need to be clear when you are giving free time/perks as gifts, and when it's in exchange for extra time or work later. My employers are also pretty generous with me, and have recently given me cash gifts/bonuses, but then felt I should have given up my one full day off last week to help out with a birthday party because I "owed" them extra as they gave me extra. I was a little annoyed to have been made to feel obliged, when I'd thought that the extra money was given to me as a gift to say thankyou, and now I it seems to have strings attached that weren't made clear. I really appreciate expectations being made CLEAR to me, so there's no room for misunderstandings that breed resentments. If you believe the extra hours should be in lieu, sit down with your nanny and tell her that.

Has anyone else picked up on the "I don't do being told what to do" statement? Can you imagine saying that to your boss in an office??

"BTW you sound like a lovely employer, and it does sound like a lovely job (It really does) but just because you are nice does not mean she should not expect to be paid overtime as stated in her contract! "

Agree NannyL

it is lovely that you give her all these perks and time off but that IS your choice and doesn't mean that you can ask her to do overtime for free in return unless you have negotiated this.

If you want to give her extra days off and let her clock off early and so on in return for extra hours, you need to say so and get her agreement. She's quite right to stick to the contract IMO - you are obviously very generous employers, but extras are just that - "extras" - not a replacement for the terms agreed in her contract.

agree with nannyl.

I'd pay her overtime but not buy her presents from If you want to give her extras then that's your choice. It's nothing to do with her salary.

you sound like a lovely employer but agree with NannyL.

I am upfront about whether I want to pay or offer time in lieu before I ask our au pair for evening babysitting.

Must admit, I would not be happy with a nanny who said she didnt like being told waht to do. It is not a cooperative, you are the boss.
I dont like being told what to do either - but I recently implemented a load of crap (imo) why? Because the customer wanted it and I was being paid!

She is taking advantage of you-but you are allowing her to do it!
She is entitled to expect to be paid for overtime.
It is a working arrangement and you can't expect her to be flexible unless you have said so upfront that you want to "bank" hours .

I am lucky as have a very lovely flexible Nanny but I made it clear from day 1 that that was what I expected because of our jobs.

She must like us as still here after 7 years!

A friend worked completely differently and always baked hours and saved them up-her nanny could say no but knew she would have to work the extra hours sometime. Our arrangement is more flexible.But nanny wins as I pay her for more hours than I need by a long shot!

If you can't renegotiate her contract I'm sure you would find someone else , you sound like a lovely employer but remember for her it is a job, no matter how fond she is of the children!

Thanks all of you....its late and I am not thinking straight really. I agree that I have given freely because I am that sort of person and most employees are not. I have learnt my lesson.

We did make it clear frm the start that we needed flexibilty and that we were not the sort of people that counted every penny in and out and she was very happy with that at the interview in return for tha fact that she was being paid full time money for what amounted to a less than full time job so that she could study at the same time.

Lets face it..........hands up on here how many Nannies get paid the same amount for what she is doing ??

But I know that give most people an inch and they will take a mile and I need to recover the ground somewhat.

Thanks for all your support. At 12.20am and I need to be up at 6am once again Mums are doing it all !!!

omega2 .....email me at hollygreenfarmhouse at bt internet dot com with your details........

Ooooooooh can I come and work for you instead? I'll only ask for half what she gets, he he!
Just think of it this way-an average 9-5 office job pays £160 with NO perks, so rent, car, food, bills etc comes out of that-she is so comfortable at your house that I think I may be changing profession! Do not worry, you are being more, more MORE than fair to her, and I think she is being more than a little bit cheeky!

So MNet Jury this is the note I have keft the Nanny..........Am I being reasonable ? Best to record in writing I feel.As you can see I am really struggling with all of this but I am determined not to be undermined or taken advantage of in my home bloody home !!

Let me know what you all think and I will post later with the Nanny's response

Dear Nanny

Sorry for typing this but there wont be enough space in the diary !

Re the extra hours. DH and I were both under the impression that your hours of work included 2 nights a week babysitting which ( Agency )had told us was standard for all live in Nannies and therefore we had assumed that because we rarely asked we were well inside our quota etc..Having looked at your contract (my fault I made the mistake when I drafted it ! ) I can see that this is not the case so I am sorry if you felt awkward over the overtime.

Having said all of that because we require a degree of flexibility with DH's anti social hours and my long hours ( he is likley off to ?? next week ) we need to find a way to get the help we need without bankrupting ourselves in the meantime .

Mum has agreed to help out whenever possible if I can?t be back for 7pm and so she will come over this Friday night to relieve you at 7pm. I will pick DD up from Brownies tonight and will see you at about 7.45pm and tomorrow I will be home by 7.30pm.

Can you therefore just keep a note of the extra hours you do in any month and we will either pay you or agree time off in lieu for instance when we are in ?? at the end of the year and your holiday entitlement has run out ( see later ) .

I know you have already done some weektime babysitting this year ( parents evenings etc ) which is by and large recorded in the diary. If you want to add up all the hours then please do so and we can add them to the total.
I know that on occasions you have fed the cats for us at the weekend but hopefully you feel that is covered by Fridays when you have been able to go early because we have been away on hols by lunchtime??e g Friday 10th Aug and Friday 1st Sept and other odd Fridays when DH has been about and not busy with other things !

In addition we need to make sure you have had all your holiday this year. You are entitled to 20 days and my records show that so far you have had :

Tues 10thApril 1
Friday May 25th alf
Tuesday 29th to
Friday 1st June 4
Mon 20th Aug to
Tues 28th Aug 6
Mon 3rd Sept 1 ( not sure about this one. I had thought you were working but cleaner left me a note to say she had done all the washing and ironing because you were away ? Can you clarify for me ? )

That totals 12.5 so far. We are away for a week in October ( 22nd to 26th ) so if you take the whole week off that makes 17.5 and 2.5 left to use.

At Christmas we are away for 8 working days . I presume you will take the 2.5 days in between Christmas and New Year which is 3 working days?..27th / 28th and 31st December. ? Ill give you half a day on New Years Eve !

So the week before Christmas 17th to 21st and 24th ( 6 days ) needs to be sorted between us.. Either you can accrue some overtime to cover some or all of the days or you can still work and I will find some other jobs to fill the time??..clearing out cupboards , children toys , running errands , baking for the freezer etc

Can you let me know what you would prefer to do ?

See you later

good note. I suspect you ought to start looking for a new nanny though - once things get to this sort of a state it's hard to rebuild a relationship where neither side feels taken advantage of.

Is it too late to comment on the letter

its good but I would say that

"That totals 12.5 so far. We are away for a week in October ( 22nd to 26th ) so if you take the whole week off that makes 17.5 and 2.5 left to use.

At Christmas we are away for 8 working days . I presume you will take the 2.5 days in between Christmas and New Year which is 3 working days?..27th / 28th and 31st December. ? Ill give you half a day on New Years Eve !"

is unfair

if you decide to go away that does not mean that she should have to take that as holiday does it? She is available to work, it is you have decided to remove the work .. not her fault .. I'd just be careful how you phrase this (unless this is already specified in her contract of course in which case ignore me)