Coronavirus- can nanny still work?

[ChloeR81]

Hi, hope I’m not duplicating a thread but I couldn’t find one.

I have a lovely nanny who comes 2 days a week. Where do we stand regarding isolation etc? Can she refuse to come to work when we’re all well? At what point would she be able to not come to work, e.g. what level of official lockdown etc.

Want to be totally fair to her and follow the rules, but equally if I don’t have childcare I can’t work and earn money to pay her. Thanks, it’s so difficult to navigate

Pidgy if my nanny did that then I would have no choice but to find an alternative. I would clearly love to retain her so could look to hold her job for a set period but couldn’t afford two at the same time.

The guidelines say she can work, she has chosen not to therefore essentially she would be resigning. She could claim universal credit.

I think there is a mistaken belief going round that you could claim the 80% from the government but 1) it’s not clear you could 2) you couldn’t have another nanny in at the same time.

Mildred01 it sounds like you have made your decision. Potentially you could agree a set time to kept your job open? You need to tell your employer ASAP so she can find an alternative

Mildred 01, is it the journey aspect that is worrying you most? I would feel deeply uneasy about using public transport at the moment. Could you bring this up with your employer? Requesting a taxi at the moment rather than using public transport, I would think, is a reasonable request.

Mildred are you on the facebook nanny groups? They are fantastic and full of many nannies who are in similar boats. I've found them to be really supportive. I think most nannies agree that we shouldn't be going in at this time unless absolutely necessary, and from my experience, many parents agree. Nannymatters have been fantastic and have given some great advice. Have a look on their website.
I work for multiple families and I feel incredibly lucky as all have now asked me not to come in with full pay, I have of course told them all that if anything changes with their finances then we can discuss again. It would be irresponsible for me to be going in and out of different houses.
I'm still working for one family who are both key workers but they are only having me in when they have a work clash.

If I worked for one family only (I have a car) then I wouldn't have any problem going in, but it was making me really nervous potentially spreading the virus through all those families. And truth be told. I'm really scared about it myself.

Ofsted & the Dept of Education have been telling Nannies they should only be going to work where both parents are key workers.
Nannies can not follow the social distancing rules whilst at work & are obviously breaking the no mixing household rule.
Our insurance is no longer valid because of this (except with childcare.co.uk I think)
Which means any Ofsted registration is invalid & childcare vouchers can't be used.

Thank you heiderose my brain is frazzled as I've seen advice left right and centre over the last week but I knew there were some key people saying we should only really work for key workers.

@Heiderose Please can you provide the link so we can have a look at what Ofsted and the Dep of education are saying. Thank you!

I don't have a link. They're emailing Nannies who enquire about what they should be doing.
We just have screenshots of the emails.

Doesn't make any difference though, parents are still making us work or threatening to not furlough us. At lot don't care.

The difficulty is that the advice given is that you can still attend work if you cannot work from home. I can see both sides though.

It’s tough for employers who can’t pay their nannies if they are not working and it’s tough for the nanny who wants to isolate but can’t afford to not get paid.

If you furlough your nanny you are saying that there is no work for them and you then cannot hire a replacement. As an employer you could then be retrospectively audited and potentially be done for fraud if you do this. Of course this all depends on whether domestic employers are even allowed to furlough in the first place. We need to wait for more direction on this retention scheme. We can’t get cross at employers for not putting nannies on furlough when we don’t even know whether it’s even possible.

Heroise unfortunately it’s yet to be clarified if you even qualify for furlough, would be great to see the clarification of domestic workers have been classed as qualifying.

The rules are simply, it’s not about just working for key workers. If you decide to not work then that is completely your right to, you will have to go off on unpaid leave

There are Nannies that have already been furloughed.
Hmrc confirmed all Paye employees in employment before 28th February.

I think it's pretty clear that nannies can work under the new Regulations and the FAQ sheet posted below makes it even clearer. However, it is not clear that domestic employers will be eligible for the furlough scheme.

We are not key workers but like a lot of nanny employers are higher tax payers, contributing a substantial amount to the pot, as well as providing employment for our nanny. Also, as a senior person in my team at work I am responsible for providing work to "feed" my team of 30, and my husband is the same. If we couldn't work, that would all fall away. Our nanny is essential to holding all this together!

Well I can furlough my nanny and I know others that have but as per nanny PAYE and nanny tax there is still clarification pending on whether or not it will be refunded to employers of domestic workers.

So I could do it, but currently I would have to do it with the risk that I couldn’t claim the 80% back. As I understand it also I wouldn’t be able to hire someone else during the period of furlough.

I would love to see domestic workers recognised, it would be brilliant. But until clarification is reached we all have to be careful with the messaging

Hi Mildred01 I have absolutely no idea why any nanny would consider working in a private household if they live out ? I am presuming nannies have no magic powers to shield them from either spreading or contracting Covid 19 ?

I am equally horrified that some non key worker employers consider their job important enough to put their child and nannies health at risk. (No PPE and little chance of social distancing not to mention the most dangerous aspect - travelling in and out of another persons household)

Which part of stay home, protect the NHS are these employers not getting. People should only be travelling if essential. Looking after the kids of financial services providers is NOT essential.

I also assume that Nannies are either payed PAYE or self employed if looking after several families children. If the latter is the case then you should just stop, claim UC for the time being to pay rent /etc and make a claim via HMRC under the new self employed support. If you are in PAYE you should just tell your incredibly selfish employers that you need to be on furlough. They don't pay you - the government does. .. and sadly like everyone else in the country their children will have to go to the government provided childcare if they are key workers or manage themselves - if they aren't.

Putting Nannies health at risk because it's 'hard' to look after your own children is just not acceptable.

Just to add. An employer must provide a safe workplace. If they cannot do that (through distancing and hygiene measures in this case) they should shut down.

If an employee is dismissed for refusing to work, or because he/she left the workplace for those reasons, it would be automatic unfair dismissal.

Employment Rights Act 1996 section 100 subsection 1 (d) protects against dismissal for not working in these circumstances...

This applies to e regime being forced to work without due regard being given to their safety.

And if parents can't work/take unpaid leave/lose their jobs then the nanny gets given notice anyway and the parents can't afford to pay her anymore. We're all in this together!

Regime? any employee

No it doesn't because the Nanny will be on furlough until the end of the kick down. Then will have to get another job or come back to you if you still require her.

Lock down

If furlough applies to nannies - which no one knows

But as the nanny will only end 'furlough' when it's ok to go back to work again, the Nanny will have work anyway .. however she will be protected financially to 80% of her wages for the furlough period.

'All in it together ' does not mean putting another persons health at risk because of something you want .! Many people have had to stop working or juggle work from home . That's just what you have to do. If you are key worker there are provisions. Putting your employee at risk (see previous post about this aspect of employment law) is not a 'work around' for you to get what you want. !

Furlough applies to ANY PAYE employee . Fgs have a little google .. even my 17 yr old daughter working Friday and Sunday at the local pub has been put on furlough.
If she can't do her job because it's NOT ESSENTIAL and UNSAFE (according to ALL government guidelines) then the 'business' of having a nanny is closed. !

Contact HMRC and do the right thing !

I agree - nannies should not be working - the question is what to do financially as a result.
If furlough turns out not to apply, the nanny employer is having to pay 80% wages themselves for (at least) the next 3 months assuming they can still actually afford to do so. Big financial risk to expect individual employers to take absent clarity on the point. Many will not want to take that risk and will agree something else with their nanny. Otherwise they'll have to let their nannies go.

Patchworkpatty, if people don’t work they will loose their jobs and can’t afford their nanny so no furloughing (if that even does apply to domestic workers).