Coronavirus- can nanny still work?

[ChloeR81]

Hi, hope I’m not duplicating a thread but I couldn’t find one.

I have a lovely nanny who comes 2 days a week. Where do we stand regarding isolation etc? Can she refuse to come to work when we’re all well? At what point would she be able to not come to work, e.g. what level of official lockdown etc.

Want to be totally fair to her and follow the rules, but equally if I don’t have childcare I can’t work and earn money to pay her. Thanks, it’s so difficult to navigate

I would add also that nanny tax have changed what they have on their website, last week it said ‘they expected nanny employers to qualify’ now they have deleted that and are just linking to government guidance.

I would really get clarity to anyone who has sent their many home expecting their baby to be eligible. Fingers crossed they are.

This is from Nanny PAYE, issue seems to be with the use of a term ‘business’ which is not traditionally seen as being a nanny employee

Have the Government confirmed if an employer of a Nanny is eligible to claim?
Sadly in our view we still do not have a firm confirmation of your eligibility to the scheme. Whilst we feel the spirit of the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme should make you eligible this has yet to be confirmed.
HMRC have updated their wording slightly to reflect all UK employers with a PAYE scheme will be able to access support as below:
“Under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, all UK employers with a PAYE scheme will be able to access support to continue paying part of their employees’ salary for those that would otherwise have been laid off during this crisis.”
However, they have still kept the eligibility criteria as ‘all UK Businesses’. We have commented in our previous updates that the employer of a Nanny is not normally recognised as a business.
This has been further reinforced with a list of organisations with employees that can apply. This is not an exhaustive list but does not specifically mention employers of domestic workers which we would have hoped to see.

Thanks for the update! I will inform my employers.

I want to add, I am not making my employers pay me anything. All situations are unique. I work for a few families, we are all trying to work out a way forward to avoid too much mixing. I would never make my employers pay me anything. As employers they have duties which are clearly outlined by our payroll company. But we are in open discussions and I have said I don't want them getting in to financial difficulty. Luckily they use me 2 days a week so they can spread their work out between them through all the days. They are still getting paid. If that changes we will rediscuss.
I suffer with my mental health as it is and it is killing me not working as much (employers choice) I need routine for me not to spiral in to depression. I don't think many nannies want to be sat at home. It is a horrible situation. I feel sad. I miss my nanny kids.

All situations are unique and you have to risk assess. Our nanny payroll company, as well as childcare.co.uk. and others have all stated that you should really consider if it is truly necessary to have a nanny in during these times. If it is for you then that's fine.

Interesting reading here - we can’t sustain paying for a nanny who isn’t working while also juggling childcare with wfh (or to put another way, working 6am-11pm between us and still cocking up conference calls due to small children bombing them). We ether need her back, or we need to take unpaid leave to do childcare properly. If one of us takes unpaid leave we literally can’t afford her :( We are not loaded by any stretch - we have a nanny simply because taking 5 years off work, whilst I would love it to raise my children, would mean dropping back to an entry level job after the break. It’s also a but cheaper than 2 in full time nursery. I have to keep my hand in or start again in years to come.

Furlough, if it applies, which as above looks at best tenuous, will be a rebate in the future but if either of us take unpaid leave that’s immediate.

I’m veering towards she should come in and work, or choose to resign/take leave if she can’t balance with her own commitments. But once all this is over (assume it will be over, one day?) I can think of no one I would love more to continue to work with our family. I’ll keep paying her as long as I can, but if we aren’t earning we won’t have the money :(

This is the sad part of it all. I believe we probably all love the wonderful nannies who take care of our babies and we want to do the best by them. I have a huge responsibility to ensure that our nanny is ok and she’s isn’t left jobless. I also carry the burden of providing for my own family. At some point, one of them has to give and truth be told, I would always ensure my own family came first. It would be irresponsible otherwise.

I really really hope that the government consider domestic employers for the scheme but I know they can’t save everyone’s jobs :(

You both sound wonderful. Please speak to your nanny and maybe come to an agreement ? I would never ever want to put my nanny families under stress or financial troubles.
Like I said, my situation is complex as I work for several families so I'm trying to minimise the risk.

I wonder what we could do? Is there someone we could all email to try and make sure they include nannies?

Honestly if I worked for one family only then I would have no problems coming in (so long as everyone stuck to the rules outside of work)

I hope they do consider domestic workers. Although if you had difficult decisions to make you’d probably make some broad assumptions such as; ‘anyone with a nanny is probably in a high earner category, who works in an area such as financial services and therefore has the ability to work from home and whose employer won’t be making redundancies, they are probably all below a certain age and therefore have low risk plus we need these high earners to pay for the grants we have just given’ they won’t want to encourage people giving their nannies 80% of their salary to be at home because it doesn’t work for the economy and also it’s disproportionate to the risk being faced.

I may not agree with all of that and hate sweeping statements but I can see how someone might be concluding that.

Hugglespuff I do think your situation is different because you work for multiple households. I’m not sure I would reach the same conclusion if my nanny wasn’t sole care.

I know that nanny tax and nanny PAYE have asked for further clarification. I imagine the British nanny association is also lobbying-you should follow them on Facebook

Thanks I'll get on that group on Facebook and look for updates.

I truly want this to work for everyone, nannies and employers.

I didn't like the statement above which said 'whyshouldI continue paying someone not coming to work' but that just isn't the case. I want to be at work. In these unprecedented times it isn't that simple and I don't want to be out of pocket completely.

I’ve read some comments on a post on the BAPN facebook page and understandably nannies are upset about have to choose between work or no pay. Honestly, it breaks my heart. I don’t want to be one of those employers but what if, as an employer, you have no choice?? How do we continue to pay a nanny their full salary when we can’t do our own jobs effectively or have to reduce hours/pay or take unpaid leave?

It’s stressing me out so much.

Try not to stress. Have an open and honest chat with your nanny. Weigh up the risks of her coming in, if not maybe you could come to an arrangement of reduced pay?

It is also worth checking your insurance.

Some nanny insurances are stating that they will not cover nannies if they are working for non key workers. This is Morton Michael. And likewise I've heard of employers insurances not covering them if they have their nanny in during Covid:19 which sucks.

I'm Ofsted registered and in order for that to be valid, I need to have insurance.

I have my insurance with childcare.co.uk who have stated they will cover. Thank goodness.

@Hugglespuffed thanks! We have discussed loads, we’re just waiting for more info from the gov on the retention scheme but until we get that, I will ask her to investigate her insurance, thanks for the suggestion. I hadn’t really thought about that.

All the best to you!

As an aside, you don’t actually need to be Ofsted registered to nanny.

Not even sure you need insurance, but thought it was best practice.
Happy to be corrected on this point though!

You're right, nannies don't have to be Ofsted registered.

I was more making the point for those who are. I am Ofsted registered because the families I work for need to pay some from tax free childcare, so if my insurance was invalid then so would ofsted.

I'm not sure if you need to be insured but I would say it is best practice to be. It protect you.

Hi everyone I have read this thread with interest, so many different points of view. We are in the same predicament with our nanny. We have just read the Government website on 'CoronaVirus outbreak FAQs: what you can and can't do'

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

Read points 4, 5 & 6. On this basis we are letting our (very willing) nanny to work tomorrow

@Kateguide glad to see they keep updating the website as some of the terminology before was quite confusing. I think this is the reason a lot of people didn’t go to work.

This is the advice I have followed too, however despite this, our nanny has decided she doesn’t want to take the risk.

Huggles I’m with Morton Michel, and I emailed them to see if I was still covered and they just directed me to the governments education guidelines and said they were following those. Have you had direct information saying your not covered?

Hi @Excited101 I'm afraid not. I am with childcare.co.uk..
I read it (and saw screenshots of emails) on the nanny lounge Facebook group.

Thanks for posting that guidance, very useful.

Hi everyone, I am a nanny and see we can still go in to work. My problem is I have been self isolating for 14 days and my employer is desperate for me to come back to work. Both parents are home and work for financial companies so not key workers yet still expect me to travel by tube and bus to come in. I live with two vulnerable people in my household, would it be unfair of me to ask not to go in?

Not unfair, but would you expect to be paid?

Our nanny is saying she cannot work as her insurance doesn’t cover her and she can’t keep a 2m distance whilst in our house.

The guidance I see has now changed so that it clarifies only ‘where possible’ you need the 2m distance.

Where do we stand with the insurance apparently not covering her?
Is this correct considering the government are saying she can go to work!

No- I wouldn’t expect to be paid because that would be unfair. I have bills to pay and would struggle but at the end of the day my families health comes first. The only thing is I’m scared to say anything because I know they would struggle without help as that’s why they are desperate to have me back (children are over 9) but i think they could manage without me- they obviously don’t. I’m even tempted to hand in my notice over this but don’t want to be mean. What should I do?

@mildred01 I believe you would qualify for SSP under the new legislation because you’ve chosen to isolate (And for good reason too). From what I’ve read, that may only be 2 weeks though. Thereafter you could see if you qualify for universal credit?

Do you have a good relationship with your employers?

My 2 weeks is up now and she’s expecting me to go back. She’s getting really annoyed because I’m not there which I understand she needs help but there’s also two of them and they’re not keyworkers. I feel safer not leaving the house but I see other people think it’s ok to still continue as they are. We do have a good relationship but this may be our first big disagreement.