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Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

I suspect dishonesty - what do you think? (a bit long)

40 replies

Bounder · 14/06/2007 09:48

We have employed an unqualified nanny to do the after school pick ups 3 days a week (nine hours) since last November. She had not been working for some months due to bereavement and had references and CRB clearance (previous job at a school).
I pay her net money in cash weekly, making it up at the beginning of the month and putting it in 4 or 5 little brown envelopes (am a bit anal). Usually these were not sealed because I needed to add more coins to make it correct and were always kept in the kitchen.
In the spring I noticed that several £20 notes appeared to be missing from more than one envelope...I am normally v good at this kind of thing and coulnt really believe I had made a mistake but was not <span class="italic">certain</span> that I had not. Everyone, including the children, knew where it was kept. DS1 has some history of "picking up" cash lying around and we grilled both older boys, getting flat denials which after a while I believed as no sudden riches materialised. DS1 birthday party in April was scaled down as a result. This morning I happened to look at the three envelopes remaining for this month (different palce now in cupboard, but nanny has seen me taking one out), knowing that all but the last had been sealed by me, to find that they were all now sealed and one had been re-written on the front in similar <span class="italic">but definitely not my</span> handwriting (similar brown envelope but not identical as different batch). I opened them all, and they are all £20 short. Ive re-sealed them.
I now know that shes been taking the money...if she accepts todays pay without complaint that its short that would be further proof but I dont need it. What to do? Feel a bit sick. I believe that shes a nice person, no complaints about her treatment of the boys, she often buy them small treats and is v fond of the youngest. Also she`s been through a rough time and I know that money is short - her main caring job is giving her fewer hours than she expected. She may well look on this as "borrowing" money which would come to her later.
On the other hand this is fundementally dishonest, she has had money to which she is not entitled (I replaced the money missing from the spring)and our boys suffered earlier through being wrongly accused.
Like many people I have taken the odd pen etc from work...would never take money. am I hypocritical? Can you trust someone with the care of your children depsite knowing them to be dishonest?
I suspect I will need to have it out with her on Monday and sack her...will also leave us up shit creek with childcare. If only it was July and not June.
What would you do?

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Hassled · 14/06/2007 09:53

You can't have someone you know to be dishonest looking after your kids. The problem is actual hard evidence - however firmly you believe she took the money, you don't actually have proof, so I would be very careful about how you sack her - would some vague "it's not working out" thing do? She'll know the real reason anyway. What a nightmare for you.

jura · 14/06/2007 09:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fifilou · 14/06/2007 09:56

when employiung a nanny trust is the biggest factor. If you dont have trust, what have you got?

It sounds as if it could be her, but you have to tread very carefully. To accuse someone of theft is huge, and it will have an impact on her future!

If you sacked her for this, she wouldnt get a reference from you, she probably wouldnt work again with children.

Has she been with you long?

Is she a good nanny in other areas?

Are you positive its her and no-one else? (cleaner or older children.)

Poor you, what an awful situation to be in.

Eleusis · 14/06/2007 10:21

Do you emply this girl on the books or pay her cash in hand? Can she proves this? If you sack her on the spot, how is she going to react? If you have been paying her cash-in-hand and she decides to report you, you will be up shit creek without a paddle.

And are you really 100% certain she is guilty?

Personally, if I couldn't prove or I thought she could make my life difficult, I'd put the money somewhere else and find a happier way to part ways. Like, I'd tell her I was planning to use a childminder, or that I am giving up work, or somethig else that won't upset her.

PinkChick · 14/06/2007 10:26

if you are 100% sure, then sack her.She is NOT a nice person if she is strealing from you!

SoupDragon · 14/06/2007 10:28

Stop leaving the money where she can get it. I can't believe you didn't do this straight away.

PinkChick · 14/06/2007 10:29

put money in cupboard..leave room with her in it and go straight back in to catch her..or does she do it when youre out?

Bounder · 14/06/2007 10:37

I do have more than one piece of "evidence" Hassled - the envelope thats demonstrably not in my handwriting (next weeks pay)and that fact that I know this weeks money is £20 short and if I say nothing and she doesnt complain then shes clearly guilty. I suppose its all circumstantial and not necessarily provable to a third party (DH belives me, and its definiely not him). We dont have a cleaner, no other adults regularly in the house (and its definitely been written <span class="italic">carefully</span> by an adult to look like my writing. Until April this was her only job so at £72 per week she fell below the NI threshold and I paid her gross, since then shes started in a care home and Ive been deducting tax and registered (again...used to employ a nanny almost full time so know the game)as an employer. At Eleusiss suggestion I`m tempted to be more careful and to say nothing until the end of term, then end the arrangement. Of course then the "proof" that I have now will be no longer present.. and it all leave a bad taste. So upsetting

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fifilou · 14/06/2007 10:39

I have to agree with Eleusis, you dont know what she might do if you accuse of her of stealing (especially if she not guilty!)

Taslk to her about her job and say youre really sorry but youre going to be putting the children with a childminder/nursery. only if youre completly sure shes been taking the money.

Couldnt you set a trap to see if its really her? like somewhere out of reach to the children/unknown to the cleaner ect, then tell her and only her that youve moved them because they keep falling odwn, or whatever. Then see what happens? I know this is an awful thing to do, but it will surely show whos taking the money?

musicianswidowAKAmumofmonsters · 14/06/2007 10:39

why not ask her if you can do a transer form your bank to hers every week? or pay her monthly? I find it bizarre that you have money lying around the house but i understand that thats just my feeling

Bounder · 14/06/2007 10:41

As I said before I think shes a nice person, shes kind to the children and I feel shes had a hard time recently. Also, Ive put temptation in her way.
Aaargh, I hate confrontation!

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Bounder · 14/06/2007 10:44

For the reaons given below I am sure it`s her and no-one else. Will be doubly so by this evening I suppose

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compo · 14/06/2007 10:45

I'm confused. Is the money in the brown enevlopes for her anyway?

fifilou · 14/06/2007 10:48

bounder- pls dont feel bad, this is not in any way your fault, by putting 'temptation in her way' you imply you shouldnt keep money in your won house!

Its your home, and your money until you give it to her.

I often see an envelope with my name on it, but I would never open it until i was given it. (its usually just my payslips when i do get it!) There is also lots of cash lying aroun here. My god, if you cant trust leaving money around because your nanny might take it, why on earth would you trust her with your precious dalrings?

Poor you, its horrid.

I get paid by standing order every wk, this is the best way and saves any problems.

I really feel for you, what an awful situation to be in.

fifilou · 14/06/2007 10:49

gjdfpgjdpigj cant type today- fat fingers!

PinkChick · 14/06/2007 10:51

ask her!..say you put xx amount in envelope and now its down by xxx, did she need some of her money early???..see how red she gos!

fifilou · 14/06/2007 10:52

pink chick- brilliant!

Poor girl though, she will probably burst into tears!

PinkChick · 14/06/2007 10:53

ah but you'll know for sure then

chopchopbusybusy · 14/06/2007 10:57

Agree with pinkchick. If you just carry on as though nothing has happened what will you do if she asks for a reference when she leaves?

fifilou · 14/06/2007 10:59

( i think she means me?)

Eleusis · 14/06/2007 11:00

You could give one of the kids a really severe punishment for stealing (and of course let her know you've done this), and see if she comes clean.

Bounder · 14/06/2007 13:10

Fifilou - thanks, it is my house and should be able to leave the odd thing lying around with worrying about pilfering.
The envelopes are labelled with her name and future pay dates ie 7/6 14/6 21/6 and 28/6 for this month and put in a neat row at the back of a cupboard to allow for easy access when I return from work on a thursday and shes about to leave. I hate scrabbling round for cash on a regular basis, she prefers cash to cheques - fair enough - and as her contract is for term time only (plus the usual 4 weeks paid leave, the rest unpaid) a regular arrangement with the bank would have been difficult. Could say Ive learnt my lesson..but you have to have a large element of trust with people you rely on within your home. there was never a problem with my previous nanny, or cleaners come to that.
Pink chick`s idea is a good one if I have the nerve, but of course will bring it all out into the open now!! Major hassle with childcare this week....

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fifilou · 14/06/2007 13:15

I'm sure it will all work out...... good luck!
Let us know what happened (if you plucked up the courage to do pink chicks idea).

I think I would be too wobbly to do that, but its sure to get a reaction.

All the best!

FairyOnTheChristmasTree · 14/06/2007 13:23

Hi Bounder, I know someone desperately looking for a nanny job but it has to be live in and she cannot drive if you sack your current nanny. She can start immediately too.

Bounder · 14/06/2007 14:51

Thanks Fairy
Wouldnt be suitable for live in Im afraid - and only need nine hours per week.
Thanks everyone for your comments

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