I suspect dishonesty - what do you think? (a bit long)

[Bounder]

We have employed an unqualified nanny to do the after school pick ups 3 days a week (nine hours) since last November. She had not been working for some months due to bereavement and had references and CRB clearance (previous job at a school).
I pay her net money in cash weekly, making it up at the beginning of the month and putting it in 4 or 5 little brown envelopes (am a bit anal). Usually these were not sealed because I needed to add more coins to make it correct and were always kept in the kitchen.
In the spring I noticed that several £20 notes appeared to be missing from more than one envelope...I am normally v good at this kind of thing and coulnt really believe I had made a mistake but was not <span class="italic">certain</span> that I had not. Everyone, including the children, knew where it was kept. DS1 has some history of "picking up" cash lying around and we grilled both older boys, getting flat denials which after a while I believed as no sudden riches materialised. DS1 birthday party in April was scaled down as a result. This morning I happened to look at the three envelopes remaining for this month (different palce now in cupboard, but nanny has seen me taking one out), knowing that all but the last had been sealed by me, to find that they were all now sealed and one had been re-written on the front in similar <span class="italic">but definitely not my</span> handwriting (similar brown envelope but not identical as different batch). I opened them all, and they are all £20 short. Ive re-sealed them.
I now know that shes been taking the money...if she accepts todays pay without complaint that its short that would be further proof but I dont need it. What to do? Feel a bit sick. I believe that shes a nice person, no complaints about her treatment of the boys, she often buy them small treats and is v fond of the youngest. Also she`s been through a rough time and I know that money is short - her main caring job is giving her fewer hours than she expected. She may well look on this as "borrowing" money which would come to her later.
On the other hand this is fundementally dishonest, she has had money to which she is not entitled (I replaced the money missing from the spring)and our boys suffered earlier through being wrongly accused.
Like many people I have taken the odd pen etc from work...would never take money. am I hypocritical? Can you trust someone with the care of your children depsite knowing them to be dishonest?
I suspect I will need to have it out with her on Monday and sack her...will also leave us up shit creek with childcare. If only it was July and not June.
What would you do?

I'm definitely of the opinion that you should ask her!

As the money is in an envelope intended for her, she may feel that she's "just" taking an advance on her salary. Has she accepted pay packets before that are down?

I think you should have no shame about saying, "Funny thing - I counted out your wages but the envelope is missing £20 - did you need it before payday?"

You seem to feel quite sorry for her regarding whatever financial distress she's been in, so I am surprised she didn't just approach you and ask for the money in advance if she has something she needs it for urgently - you seem pretty understanding and considerate! It's important though that you're not making the envelopes back up to the stated amount without challenging where the money went - as you say, if she's accepting paypackets that are down £20 without appearing surprised that suggests that she's expecting it to be missing and knows why (ie, it went in her pocket weeks ago!)

if she's short of money could it just be that she needs it before pay day and is dipping in to it, not knowing you are going to look and replace it, iyswim?? it may be that when she's been paid she's seen the extra in there but then felt embarassed to say anything. what does the handwriting on the envelope say?

I think she is dipping in due to being short, no idea whether she has accepted short pay packets before as I dont normally open them to check..did so this morning as noticed handwriting was different on the front! (they just say her Christian name with the pay date in the top left hand corner). I expect she damaged one envelope in opening it! The thing is she has asked for an advance once or twice before early in the week and Ive always given her a £ 20 note from one of the current pay pack, no problem with this as shes done the work. NannyClaire - I did make the envelopes up which were short back in the spring as at that time I was not certain that either I was not at fault or that one of the children hadnt taken it...so shes had money she shouldnt have and no doubt knows it (probably embarrassed as someone said).
Feel bad that I all but accused my DS1 and there was a bad atmosphere one evening because of it (and he lost out on his party).
For the reasons given above Im sure he was never involved (I thoroughly searched his room at the time, and hes nothing to spend all that money on anyway!)

i think its more like she thinks she can help herself to a 'loan' of her own pay packet if you havent replaced the moeny beofre..out them out of the way in furture and dont let her near them!

I think it sounds like she's been borrowing it, thinking you'll just hand her the envelope without checking the contents. Still, it's dishonest, but not exactly theft until you replaced what she took.

How much extra have you paid her by topping up the envelopes?

I personally would ask her... try a no-pressure question like 'Is money a bit tight atm? I noticed you've needed to take a bit of pay a little early some weeks'

See what she says, like you said you don't think it's anyone else but you should be able to tell if she's shocked beyond belief.

If she admits to it, then tell her you are docking her pay by £20 a week to make up for the fact you hadn't realised she 'needed' the money and had added extra by mistake.

If she then chucks a fit saying you can't do that, (but she's basically admitted taking it as well) then you have excuse for sacking/no reference.

to be honest if i was you i'd keep her till school breaks up
don't replace the money & see what she says

i can't beleive you leave unsealed envelopes of money somewhere anyone has access to sorry i know it's your home and you can do what you want but it sounds a bit daft to me

Update for those who are interested!
Decided to take pragmatic approach, make sure that any money is hidden away (she has not complained that last Thursdays pay was £20 short, so I am in no doubt that shes been helping herself) and raise the issue in the last week of term.
Am prepared be sympathetic but I suspect most likely outcome is that our employment will end there. Probably wise not to make any out and out accusations, as I have no "proof", but if she doesnt admit it then the decision is easy...Ill just give 4 weeks notice sayig it isn`t working out (summer holidays anyway)

Oh, glad you come to a decision on how to deal with it. And I'm afraid you are probably right about the employment likely coming to an end.

Good luck.

well done bounder......must be a weight off your mind, finally reaching a decision.

Wishing you all the best, hope you find a lovely replacement!

Lots of lovely nannies out there!

I meant to say thank you to all who took the trouble to reply. Im relatively new to MN and this is the first time Ive posted about a "problem" - your replies really helped me to put things into perspective after my initial reaction and helped me to reach a considered decision on how to manage it.
Shame MN wasn`t around when my previous almost fulltime nanny had sick leave, maternity leave etc!
Thanks again!

You're welcome.

Update for anyone who remembers this thread - I had the conversation this evening prefaced by a sympathetic comment that I realise things are tough financially (she`s requested and received advances on pay early in both the last two weeks, all monies kept in my room).
Result - flat denial, would never open future pay packets, never replace one with a rewritten one etc (I know this has been done, took a photo to prove it.) No answer to my comment that the three pay packets after early June were all short by £20 but she never complained.
She never blushed or got flustered either, as I would have, so perhaps not the first time.
Atleast it made my decision to say good bye easy. Leaves a bad taste though.
The search for after school childcare begins again!

Oh, Bounder. That cannot have been fun. Especially as you believe she lied right through it. Gosh, I don't envy you.

But, glad it's over and done with and you can now move on.

And you said further down the post that she is starting in a Care home?
Sounds like she has pilfered before and do hope that if she tries that in a Care home she will be found out pronto and she would be arrested for that.
AB

MBeen lucrking on this thread since you posted, and am glad it's all over.