Tried to help a mum with her head in the clouds, but it backfired

[nally]

I looked after a little boy for almost 2 years, 50 hours every week. I suspected for a long time that he had speech difficulties but didn't know whether to say anything or how to say it. I ended up, last June, mentioning to his mum that some people had commented on his speech and, although I am obviously no expert, she might want to get it checked out.
At around the same time he became aggressive, which got worse very quickly. I had always thought some of his behaviour was unusual and read up on it. It looked like he was probably autistic or had asperger syndrome. I didn't want to be the bearer of more bad news.
In October he started pre-school. Within 4 weeks the staff told me that he was very violent towards the children and to them, that he could not follow instructions, he laughed when being told off, became transfixed by the strangest things and that he would have periods of having a glazed expression and not responding to anything or anyone. They decided to my relief to speak to his mum. Four days later, she removed him from pre-school and terminated the childminding contract with me.
I have not seen him since then, 2 and a half months ago. There is a legal thing going on because she owes me money, but my concern is with him.
Will she just keep hiding him away so that she doesn't have to hear the truth? Will he have to wait until he starts school for anything to happen? Will she ever realise that both myself and the pre-school staff were trying to help them both?
I feel very upset. Can anyone say anything to cheer me up?

I think its common for parents motivations to be misunderstood as well. For example we repeatedly refused to send our son to the autism unit- this was interpreted as us being deperate for him to be in mainstream (and therefore in denial etc etc). IN fact we refused the unit because we thought it was very unorganised and not very good. When an opportunity came up for a place at an SLD/PMLD school - ie for children far more severe than at the unit- we bit their hands off- couldn;t get him in fast enough- because its a good school.

Nally I get the impression that you are upset because the contract with you was broken without giving you a reason and you feel it all ended badly.

FWIW I have a CM and she will be taking and collecting ds from nursey when he starts. I would be astounded if the nursery and childminder did not talk about/discuss ds. It is madness to suggest otherwise, how could that work?. If someone is taking a child and picking them up and the parent is not then they would be the first person the nursery would ask for information or for clarification on something.

I would howevever want to be kept fully informed of any conversations. I would also make sure I kept in regular contact with the nursery (more so because I am unlikely to be there and so no as available just for a chat)

As for the OP - is your relationship with the mother very difficult? Is there any way you could call her and say you are missing 'x' and just wanted to know how he is. Maybe if you could end your relationship with this little boy and his mother in a more positive way you may feel better.

If you do this though, try and change your view of his mum before speaking to her. As others have said this must be a very difficult time for her and she needs support not to be made to feel like she 'ignored things'

Also if his mother is angry with you try and remember that much of it will be about her son's problems and that she will almost certainly be feeling guilty (what mother doesn't) that she wasn't there for him. Try not to take it personally.

I don't think anyone expects nursery/Cm/school etc not to discuss things with each other. I'm a teacher too and of course this happens. The issue is if you discuss things with someone outside your institution BEFORE talking to the parents, and without letting the parents know.

I appreciate that it might be hard to discuss scary things like this but it is part of your job like its part of mine. I think alot of the reasons why parents get uptight when carers 'tell them about problems' is the way it is done. As a teacher and ex youth worker this is the kind of thing I would say to lead into that conversation.

Mrs X could we have a chat next week (arrange a time without kids around) to discuss how littleX is settling in?,
or
I like to give an update to paretns on the development/progress all of my charges are making so can we arrange half an hour to do that for littleX?

Alternativly you could do what one ex carer for DS did and say;
[with the TV on, in front of DS, while I was in a rush and trying to pack my school things.]
"He's a bit shyer and quieter than the other boys I've looked after, I think he is autistic"

oddly I didnt' react well.

Oh that's so true sunnyjim. I was thinking about about the evil nursery and how they approached it with me. I'd had concerns for some months and people had told me not to be so silly, so these were the first people who were thinking the same way.

1. they asked me to fill in a quesitionnaire which had things like "what do you do at weekends?", "how do you play with ds1" - all seemed to be suggesting that they thought we just ignored him. 2)The told me it was my fault he wasn't talking
2. they told me I didn't seem to care there was something very wrong
3. they told me ds1 was the strangest child they'd ever seen
4. they told me that compared to x (from his antenatal group) he was way behind.

Never mind taking him out I'm surprised I didn't lamp the pair of them. God it was awful. Then when we did get to see the professionals 6 months down the line they told us there was nothing much wrong with him, mild language delay, definitely not autism. No wonder I was confused.

Nally whilst I was a childminder I had a problem same as yours with a child in my care.In my case the outcome was the same as it is for you.
Speaking from personal experience the mother is maybe in denial and isnt ready to acknowledge the problems her child has or it could be a matter of the mother somehow believing she is to blame or will be looked on in this way by others. In time she will realise and maybe like me you will get a very distraught woman on your step who has the enormity of it just hit her like a ton of bricks.You cannot make her see it until she is ready to accept it for herself.You did what you could.

Lazycow is talking sense. If Nally was doing the preschool runs then of course the preschool would end up telling her at end of sessions how the boy's day went, what happened, problems encountered.

Nally looked after this wee lad more than full-time for 2 years and of course she cares a lot about him, I am shocked at people who dismiss her as judgemental without realising how fond she is of the lad -- and worried that his needs aren't being met by a mother who won't even pay up the bill she owes Nally.

I hope you get some good news, Nally. Think passing on your concerns to a HV is both a duty of care required of you (as a prof. childminder) and the only thing you can do.

To all of you people out there who think I am a bad childminder. I am truly upset by this. I did not post the full story on here as it would take you about 2 hours to read.

Firstly, I tried on several occasions to speak to his mum about the speech thing. Her response was to tell me there is nothing wrong with him. I thought maybe there was a hearing issue and she told me that he had his hearing checked regularly and he could hear perfectly.

When I tried to discuss with her his changing behaviour and increasing aggression towards me and the other children in my care, she told me he wasn't that sort of child and that he would 'give as good as he gets but would never lash out'. This made me feel like she was blaming me for this type of behaviour and made me feel uncomfortable about discussing it any further for a while.

As it was getting worse (on one occasion I heard the words "I will stand by the baby so that he won't hurt her" from a 5 year old in my care) and he was on a daily basis kicking, punching, pinching, screaming, smacking all of us (I had the bruises to show for it) I tried once again to speak to her, asking her (again) how she handles it when he behaves like that. She said he would only behave that way 'once in a blue moon', even though I had seen him grab her hair and headbutt her as well as kick her in the stomach on my own doorstep. Her advice was for me to tell him kindly to stop. This did not work. Sometimes I would ask him 6,7,8 or more times to stop, whilst whoever he was hurting was crying and begging him to stop.

The pre-school spoke to me because his mother asked me to find out what his behaviour was like at school. They knew she had asked me to speak to them. They said that they would speak to her when she next came to the pre-school, although I did ask them if they could do it sooner, so that I wasn't the one passing on negative stuff about him (I also told her about all of the wonderful things he did, so was not just slating him). When pre-school spoke to her, she confessed to them that she had NEVER been to see a health visitor with him, since he was a newborn.

Ok, so some of you may be right. Maybe she isn't hiding him away. Maybe she is getting it sorted out. All I can say, in my defense, is that I tried to help in the kindest way, but she lied to me about seeing someone about his possible difficulties, she made me feel like she did not believe what I was telling her, then she sent me a text message whilst I was in hospital with my daughter saying "I have decided to take him out. If you have a problem with it, put it in writing". I tried to speak to her, left messages and got nothing apart from a letter saying that I am a bad person. I really hope this is not the case, otherwise I may as well shoot myself right now.

Apologies nally- you sound like you've been more than reasonable, I think you've got a roasting because of the wording of head in her clouds etc, and lots of us have been on the receiving end of that sort of comment unfairly.

If the mother doesn't deal with it (does she work?, if so he'll need to go to another childcarer) then it will be picked up at his next childcare or at school- tbh in many places pre-school help is practically non-existent- although it is of course better to have someone on side. TBH I've only seen a HV for ds3's checks, I've never been to clinic or anything so that may not be unusual. although certainly it would be sensible to talk to one with concerns.

Just reading back through some of the messages, I would also like to point out that the pre-school tried to phone her to speak to her and the contact numbers she had given them were unrecognised. When I told her that they had been trying to get in touch and the numbers were wrong, she just laughed and said "oh, were they?". On a couple of occasions, when he had been unwell, I had tried for at least an hour to contact her without luck. Once when he was really poorly (sick with temperature and not eating) and I had managed to contact her, she told me to give him some cherry soothers and some Smarties to cheer him up.

He used to turn up in the mornings, carrying mascaras with the lids off, tampons, sachets of calpol, felt tip pens, knickers, all sorts of stuff. He would also sometimes arrive with cold toast in a sandwich bag or a chupa chup lolly for his breakfast.

Nally - I think you've behaved admirably in a nightmarish situation. 2 of my sons are SN and while I hated the Reception teacher for telling me her concerns about DS2, she had spotted things that I just hadn't (if you live with it, it starts to seem "normal")and without that initial approach from her his school-life would be horrendous now. I also childminded a boy with serious behavioural problems and I picked him up from playgroup each day so yes, the PG staff did talk to me about how he'd been. And yes, I did tell the mother about my concerns and was lucky that she was more responsive than in your case and he has now been diagnosed with a behavioural disorder. But that was just down to luck, and you've been very unlucky. You do need to talk to a HV about him - his welfare is the most important thing.

Thank you Jimjams2 and Hassled. I suppose I should have worded the thread better and apologise to anyone I may have upset or offended. There is no excuse for it, but I was upset and wanted to just tell someone about it.

I think you sound like a great childminder, its a difficult situation but it sound like there were other issues here aswell.
best wishes x

Thanks for saying that. I don't feel like such an ogre now. I did speak to my HV at one point and she tried to assure me that I had done all I could. She was an angel. She sat in my house while I cried for 2 hours.

The full story sounds very different to the OP. Hopefully the next pre-school or school will pick up on any SN asap. Well done to you Nally and good luck with sorting out the legal issues and getting your money back.

nally, you have done nothing wrong. You sound like a really lovely person and a very professional, dedicated childminder

Keep up the good work!

Message withdrawn

I have been told by the solicitor that any contact must be made through them. It was his 3rd birthday last Wednesday and I wanted to send him a present (he loves the Johnson's Shampoo Hairdo advert, so thought I would get him some and a little something else), but I was advised not to.

I think it was totally unfair on both of us that our relationship was cut short in the manner that it was. I would have loved to have had the chance to spoil him and have a little party to say goodbye. He made so many friends when he was with us and they have all been taken away from him.

The other thing of course is that, although most people could not understand what he was saying, because we had him for such a long time, there were things I would understand, for example if he said "dopeynow" he would actually be asking for me to open something. If I asked him what he should say when asking for something, he would say "daypee" (say please). It must be really frustrating for him to have to start afresh somewhere else, with people who won't have a clue what he is talking about until they get to know him better.

It breaks my heart

Nally, you sound like a wonderful, sensitive, caring and intuitive cm. You did your best.

I have just read this thread and can't believe the accusations levelled at you nally. You did your best and all I can say is I feel sorry for the child - and you. Sounds like the mother has real problems.

nally, that's very sad indeed.
it is similar in a way to the position of grandparents who are denied contact with a child they have got to know. It just feels wrong. We kept in touch with our oldest children's nanny who looked after them for 10 years.

Also I would expect the school or nursery to talk to the person collecting the child. It's common sense. Obviously I owuld expect that then to be passed to me - which it always was, if the nanny remembered she'd say - the school said XZY was quiet today or he doesn't have any friends or whatever.

I think you've done all you can. I hope she pays the money owed too.

if you were looking after him 50 hours a week then I would think you would be the only carer the playgroup saw anyway so no one can blame them for voicing concerns, especially if the mum was so hard to get hold of.

Some parents attitudes to childminders infuriate me, Sorry but they really do! Happy to leave your child with someone for 50 hours a week but not happy for them to have any opinion on that child

I am sure that Nally has the best interests of the child at heart, and is deeply concerned to know that he is ok - and is, in fact an excellent childminder.

But you, smeeinit and quietmouse, must be able to see the difference between being trusted to care for a child, being appreciated for that - and having the right to be told information about that child from a third party without the parent being told?

I don't think it was Nally at fault there at all - it was the pre-school - whether or not they had the parents number. if they didn't have it, it was their responsibility to get it!

But the mother had given the pre-school false contact numbers. How could they know that they were false until they tried the numbers? And how do you get hold of someone if they have given you false contact details?

Sorry, nally. Like jj and nj I feel I jumped on you before knowing the full story.

I do think we can sometimes forget that jumping fully clothed into an African river with ears blocked, shouting la la la I hate you all and you're wrong wrong wrong is one very normal reaction to trauma, though. And hearing, no matter how gently, and facing that something may be seriously wrong with your child is going to be traumatic.