Do you think this is appropriate?

[jamum]

Today picked up ds from his childminder and he is in tears, in fact sobbing. He is 16 months.

Do you think these 2 things are right? Or am I just making a mountain out of a molehill.

1. The childminders own children were having their dinner in the conservatory with the door shut, and ds (who was obviously hungry) was absolutely desperate to get in there with them. But wasn't allowed.

I guess that the cm didn't let him in because I was due to pick him up (although I was 20 minutes early). I would have thought she would have either a) waited until I had been and gone before feeding her children, or b) Put ds in the high chair with some of his fruit which was left in his bag.

and

1. Apparently ds bit her lo (he has never bitten anyone before) so the cm told him off and said he was naughty, and then made him sit in a chair for a few minutes.

I think this is excessive for a 16 month old, but maybe I think that because he's my little boy.

What do you think?

Agree with you, this is wrong. Poor thing, no way she should be shutting him out of the room everyone else is in. What a horrid way to treat a toddler.

Don't think naughty chair is appropriate for his age either, I'd just say 'no, we don't bite' or 'stop' or something very short and give lots of attention to the one who has been bitten.

I'd have a serious word with the c/m tbh, wouldn't be happy leaving ds with someone so harsh.

I'd have him out of there quicker than Concorde. The woman hasn't a clue what she's doing.

I realise it's not that easy when you think you have your childcare sorted, though.

Forgot to say this is only his 2nd week there.

What time was it?

Had she offered to give him tea & you said not to?

Don't like the child being called naughty prefer that the biting is naughty (iyswim)

Time out is prehaps a liitle harsh for a 16mo - I usually start that about 20-24 m - but it may have been a way of diffusing a situation - eg if a child gets so frustrated they can bite and then get upset at what they had done - I would prob sit them down until they hads calmed down (iyswim) rather than time out

i dont think a naughty chair is appropriate for a 16 month old

at least my 16month old charge would not understand at all yet..

at the moment he has a habit of hitting his 3 year old brother... we say no hitting (firmly) and pick him up under arms (not in a cuddley sort if way) and turn him right around facing away from us in another area of the playroom

on the 3 occasions he has bitten his brother he gets an even firmer no biting and has been picked up under the arms and placed facing away from us in the hall (not in the playroom) meanwhile big brother gets lots and lots of positive attention!

think shutting him out while every one else is eating is a bit mean too to be honest! especially if he might be hungry.... 16 month olds dont udnerstand what is theres and what isnt... all they know is what they want!

It was about 5.10pm, I finish work at 5, but pay until 5.30pm in case of traffic etc.

We haven't dicussed tea times, but I put enough food in his bag to cover him for any eventuality!

I am a childminder and I sometimes have to feed my kids whilst mindees are still with me. 1 particualr family has asked for no snacks after a certain time to ensure evening meal(at home with parent) is eaten fully. in this case I ensure that I do something fun with mindees so they dont even notice my kids eating.

If I know parent is going to pick up after my meal time I would usually offer to give mindee a meal too or light snack.

It is very difficult as your childminders family need to do what they need to do(iyswim) particually as they may have other activities to go to but perhaps a light snack or piece of fruit would help to resolve the issue.

I have found breaksticks, bread and butter, small fruits like raisins are ideal in these situations.

Perhaps you should send in a little something to be given to your LO if he sees others having a meal and wants to join them.

I am sure if you just mention this to your CM she will be as eager to prevent it happening again as you are.

Might have been a misunderstanding then - can you say that if you haven't arrived by 4.55 or 5pm can he have xyz out of his bag

She might be thinking "I can't give him any tea as mummy will want to do it when she gets him home"

Most of my upsets are over total misunderstandings (but this might not be the case here - it's just worth a conversation...maybe?)

Yes it is worth mentioning to let him have a snack from his bag when she feeds her children.

If she has any wits about her at all, it should have been bloody obvious that it was wrong to shut a 16mo baby out of a room in which people were eating, especially as you arrived early to pick him up. I wouldn't be happy I'm afraid.

I have to say I am presuming the minder was in the room with your child - if he were by himself then that is a different issue

What I am finding strange is that you say that you have not discussed tea times surely either one of you would want to know about this. I dont see why she would have to alter her families teatime but as long as she was trying to distract your ds by playing etc then I really dont see the problem. I personally think that maybe she thought as Katymac said that she didnt want to feed him and spoil his appetite for his tea at home, I know a lot of parents who are adament that they want to have the evening meal with their children.

I do think that the putting in the chair thing is probably a little ott for a 16 month old the understanding of consequences does not really start until around 2 so it has no real benefits at all.

nzshar - you're right, we should have discussed teatime, I just assummed that I would give ds his tea at home, but didn't dream she would give her children their tea and shut him out.

Last week she didn't give her ch their tea until after I'd gone.

Argh! No no no.. we were told specifically in our NCMA course not use a naughty chair or step under any circumstance, and I would think a 16 month old would be hard pressed to understand.

Also, he would have no idea why he was being excluded from meal times. I am really curious on why she wouldn't discuss that with you in the first place. Surely she could have let him just sit with them.

I wouldn't be comfortable with this at all.

I think you need to speak to her asap. Seems really odd to seperate a baby from others whilst eating, toast raisens or fruit of some sort even a very small amount, was the child minder recommended to you, and did you do trial sessions? Just wondered and maybe a bit nosey sorry if you think I am and good luck

Message withdrawn

Did she say it was the "naughty chair"? At my son's school they have a "thinking chair" both in the class and out in the playground which is in effect is the same as a naughty chair. I agree with another post about calling the act naughty and not the child.

My mindees parents prefer their children to have tea at my house because they won't eat at their own homes!!

I much rather my DS has tea at my childminders house - she does;t feed him what I would by any stretch and some of it makes me wince.... but when I see his sat at a table with 8 other children (4 her own), feeding himself like I have never seen and conversing in his own 2 year old way with his best pal (her daughter) at his left elbow - and then reap the benefits of this socialisation at home...

I think it is mean as anything to shut your child out. Why not ask her to give him his tea?

Like nzshar said, i find it very odd that you and your childminder did not discuss tea times before care started. All these details should be written down in the meetings before care.. I ask my parents to complete a daily routine for their child from getting up to going to bed so I know what they are doing throughout the day. 1 of my mindees has tea with me the others go home for tea. my own dd gets fed when the mindees are here, but sits in the kitchen and the children stay in the lounge, i go between both to make sure everyone is ok.

As for the naughty step, i know lots of cms who use a naughty step (some with the consent of parents).

Biting in my house is not acceptable and the child who bites will be told that biting is naughty.

Agree that biting is not acceptable, but it was they way she 'told off' a 16month old. She didn't call it a naughty chair, just a 'chair', but did say that he had been naughty.
I would have thought an explanantion into why it wasn't nice etc and lots of cuddles for the other child would have been more appropriate for that age range.

As for the tea, I provide enough food for the whole day, and although I didn't explicitly say 'can you feed if he is clearly hungry and making a fuss' (at the only day I pick him up that late,) I kinda just expected she would.

So yes, I didn't make it clear (my fault) to her that she COULD feed him at tea times with the food I'd provided, but hey, wouldn't you if a child was that upset and had his nose pressed upto the glass door watching the other children eat?

jamum, I would feel exactly the same as you. Sitting him in a chair and telling him he was naughty would not be the approach I would want taken - I would expect her to say a firm no and remove him from the other child and ignore him for a short length of time - a minute or so. I don't think labelling it naughty is at all helpful. It would be naughty at 5 years old - at 16 months it's not naughtiness, it's experimentation and lack of capacity to imagine that others feel pain. She just needs to remove him, then divert him.

Going for the sitting on chair approach and labelling it naughty is poles apart from where I think you are.....

and I agree with greensleeves, it was very bizarre not to sit him in the highchair with a bit of fruit or something.

Definitely if you stay with this childminder, get EVERYTHING in writing to avoid any future misunderstanding, as it sounds as if her style of parenting is very different to yours.

jamum,i do sympathise with you and think that your cm needs a course on behaviour management!

as a cm (or any type of childcare) you do have to be very carefull about ensuring you do as the parent wishes.which is why you do have to give clear instructions.its not that all us cms are stupid{hmm} and cant think for ourselves its that we HAVE to follow parents wishes.

altho it sounds fine that your cm should use her common sense to feed your child at the end of the day if there is food left for him in his lunch pack.....what if you had a big meal waiting for him at home? or were going out for diner? or the food in his lunch pack was to take to nanny and grandads/friends (whoever!!) after the cms?

I have some that eat and 2 that don't, though I always offer (could be my cooking) if they dont want dinner and mum doesnt mind either way, then I offer an alternative healthy snack.

I have a time out bottom stair, it works with some and others.........well, they just keep getting up. Perhaps Im just to soft, but i NEVER use naughty word, we talk about it, and explain why it shouldnt happen.

TBH I think the CM did handle this badly. But it can be tricky. DS does not eat at the CM as we prefer him to eat at home with us. However two of the other mindees do, and the CM was giving him a snack but the slice of toast at 5.15 was spoiling his tea at 6. Although DS is older (5) so understands why X and Y are eating and he isn't.

I know there are all sorts of very good reasons why some of the children are eating and some aren't, but I don't think any of the reasons are good enough to justify this child's distress. He cannot understand it. He's too young. I would coordinate his meals with those of the other children or find a different childcare setting with a routine that suits yours more closely.

And I would be desperately unhappy about the way this CM handled it. Did she raise her concerns about the situation with you? Because I really think she should have been as upset about shutting a distressed child out of a room as you were.