childminder v nursery dilemma

[mumofben]

sorry if this topic has already been discussed - I'm returning to work in Feb and until recently thought nursery would be best for my 6 month old - However, i flicked through the Stephen Biddulph book on "raising boys" and he suggests that boys in particular benefit from a calm environment with a constant person they can learn to be attached to etc which made sense. So, I changed my mind and thought a childminder would be better, especially in the early months then I could change to nursery when he's a bit bigger.

However, talking to a mum the other day made me re-think again - I've got him into a routine with naps etc - a childminder will want him to fit around her routine - eg out in the car all day? or will he be stuck in front of TV while she's doing her housework etc. Therefore, no guarantee he'll get individual attention anyway.

Now I'm completely unsure what to do. Would be really grateful if anyone can help point me in the right direction?

Hi Ben's Mum...Just a quick note of reassurance for you. I've been a Nanny for over 12 years now, I was a Nurse before, and so, as you can imagine, I've come across all sorts of children. Because we are all individuals, children react differently to care of any kind.You can get great nurseries and bad ones...fabulous nannies and childminders and not so great ones.You need to look into all possibilities and see what suits Ben and you the most. Remember, you need to know that you can cope with the hours too. If you need reassurance that, for example, if Ben were ill, you could still go to work, then you need a Nanny as a childminder and a Nursery would require him to stay at home. If you have a family support network that could help you out in a crisis, then you'd be fine to look at nurseries and childminders. One tip...always turn up at a nursery unannounced to view it and always try the same at a childminders. You'll get a good feel for their usual practise.

Most importantly, so long as a child is happy and being encouraged to fulfil their potential, They can go anywhere.
Good Luck ! xxKaren

not sure what your friend has told you about childminders!!
ima cm and certainly dont do my housework while the kiddies are sat in front of the tv!!
im afraid to say that your son will not get anything like individual attention at a nursery unless you have found one with very little children?
i think you need to go and see a few nurseries and cms and maybe consider a nanny if you wish for your sons routine to be stuck to rigidly.

my ideal choice would be for my mum to have him and she'd love to, but lives too far away and works herself. second choice would be a naany, but we can't afford one - it wouldn't be worth me going back to work. 3rd choice would be a relative / trusted friend but nobody to fill that category.

I've rung a few childminders from the ncma website but they hadn't got any vacancies unfortunately - one of them sounded very nice and was nneb as well.

I've got a brochure from leapfrog nurseries and was going to ring to make an appt as it says, but I think I'll turn up unannounced as mrspoppins suggests.

It's not that his routine is set in stone - just that I've got him used to having 2 hours nap at lunchtime in his own cot - on days he doesn't get a good sleep he gets very irritable all afternoon. If this coincided with say a school run for the cm, then he wouldn't get a good sleep.
I suppose I just have to go and look at as many as possible and see if one of them feels right?

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mumofben I don't think a nursery is likely to be more accommodating of a child's routine than a CM. How old is he? Both mine have had lengthy (although maybe not quite so lengthy as at home) naps at nursery after lunch. An after lunch nap would probably suit a CM - most groups etc are in the morning and school run is not until 3.15 or so. It is no different than for a Mum with older children. DD will often have a 2 hour nap and then go to collect DS from school.

So I think you would need to speak to the individual CM or nursery involved. DS and DD both attend/ed nursery but DS is at school now and has a CM.

Ah 6 months. So he will be 9 months in Feb. I actually disagree with HMO2. It is quite possible for a child to have enough sleep at nursery. In fact, I remember having to request the nursery cut down on DD's sleep because she wasn't ready for bed. Now at 2 1/2 she is still having 1.5 ish hours of sleep at nursery after lunch. Due to other commitments I have only been able to manage this for her once over the last four days.

sorry - he's 3 months now, will be 6 months when I go back to work.

It just seems too young to be bombarded by different faces taking care of him and the noise and bustle does worry me.

On the other hand, how can I expect a cm who doesn't get a proper break all day, to be as motivated and "involved" with him for 10 hrs a day on her own?. Even I as his mother am finding it exhausting - or am I too worried that he'll become either withdrawn / or demanding if he doesn't get just the right amount of interaction. God I'm sounding more confused than ever...

I read that book as well and it was a factor in my decision to change from nursery to childminder.

Having said that after reading his book The Secret of Raising Happy Children, I don't think Steve Biddulph actually agrees with mothers of pre schoolers working at all so I wouldn't treat his opinion as totally neutral.

A good childminder will not have your son out in the car all day she will be interacting with him, taking him for walks and he will be engaging with her other mindees. I have found what I believe to be a wonderful cm and this is what she does with him. However I'm not rigid about DS routine, well I tried to be but it didn't work out, it's not an issue for him to fit his naps around the overall routine.

I believe the issues with nursery are around continuity of care and level of attention. If a nursery can guarantee the same key worker for your son for as long as he is in the baby room ( obviously unless that person leaves) and you are comfortable with that person then I would imagine he should thrive in nursery. My fear was that as DS is low maintenance then he might get ignored.

Hope it works out for you and interesting topic to raise.

mumofben - it sounds as though you would prefer a childminder TBH. I think you should contact a few CMs, ask them about their day/routine, ages of other children, whether they have a cot/travel cot available etc and take it from there. And if your DS sleeps for two hours in the middle of the day - there is a fantastic break all built in.

There are some fanastic childminders. My son had a lovely childminder for 4 months and she took excellent care of him. Originally I wanted him to attend a nursery full time, but the nursery I wanted only could offer me 3 days. The only reason I took my son from the childminder is that a full time place at the nursery came up. At the age of four years old Andrew made it clear that he prefered the nursery.

I would try and find a child minder or a nursery through recommendation. There are bad nurseries as well as bad childminders. A good nursery keeps hold of its staff so it is worth asking people how long they have been in their jobs for.

Bare in mind that your child will catch more germs at nursery than with a child minder.

Make sure that the child minder has similar parenting ideas to you. Ie. if you are a Gina Ford devotee there is no point in picking a child minder who is heavily into attachment parenting. Or vice a versa.

Its also worth asking about their views on potty training, weaning and settling a child for a nap.

I love childminders for littlies. But dd3 is starting at nursery soon (7 months) as it has come highly recommended by a good friend whose opinion I trust, plus I cannot find a decent childminder this time around. The baby room is tiny with only 5 babies and 2 carers which guarantees her a better ratio than she gets at home

mum of ben, go and take a good look around some different kinds of caregivers.

DH and i just didn't like the idea of just one person being responsible for my son's care but i know friend's children who have built lovely relationships with their childminders.

i have found, what is for me the perfect solution, a small, very non-corporate nursery, bit scruffy, small, family feel, mature women working there many of whom are mothers themselves. Each child has a keyworker. He is thriving there.

Nothing wrong with a few germs!

mumofben, visit child minders and nurseries. You will soon get a feeling of what is right for you and your son.

Mumof ben, listen to your instincts and check out both cm and nurseries. I had cms for my DS until he was 2 and then he went to a nursery. I don't think the routine that you have now will stay in place for too long anyway as your son is getting a little older. Our first cm was lovely, a normal nice family environment, three mindees (thereof two on a p/t basis, my DS was f/t), her two own children were older and were at school. She was experienced, a competent Mum, so when I dropped off DS in the morning, the housework was done already! She'd take the kids and dog for a walk, went to playgroups twice a week and would have him even when he had a cold. She loved children and was experienced - that was the deciding factor for me. Nurseries may be more likely to refuse to have your child; I have a friend who regularly has to collect daughter and take time off work. It's a personal choice and there's no right or wrong answer, just whatever suits your preferences and gut feeling.

I think you need to take your sons personality into consideration. If you feel he is a shy baby who is easily upset then you might find that he struggles at nursery, if however, he sleeps well and seems fairly robust he will be fine at nursery. The nursery my dd goes to has a sleep room dedicated to babies from 3mths to 1yr, they babies get to sleep as much as they require. Then from 1yr to 3yrs the children are encouraged to sleep in the morning and then after lunch so they all end up with a similar routine.

I wouldn't discount nurseries straight away. I know many parents who are now introducing their young babies to the nursery as their siblings have been so happy there.

Do as MsPoppins says and drop in without notice and always go with gut feel.

I'm a bigger fan of childminders than I am of nurseries. I actually have a nanny. But, I think young children (under 2 years) are better off with a childminder. There is a better oppotunity for bonding with a single long term carer. Consider that nursery staff generally has a high turnover. So, he might bond with someone who is going to resign next month. Another thing to consider is the flexibility of hours. If you are late to a nursery, they will not be happy and charge you lots of ££££. Childminders are generally more flexible -- if of course you discuss this before signing the contract. Some childminders want to finish at 6:00 so they can spend time with their family. And other are happy to work as late as you want, but will appreciate as much advance warning as possible. Some will charge more for unsociable hours, other will continue on their usual rate.

Also, I was looking at a nursery contract a few weeks ago and it required 3 months notice to change. 3 months??? No way would I sign that contract. What if my job changes? I don't get that kind of notice, and I can't possibly commit to giving it. One month I could do, but not three. I think this is but one example of how inflexible nurseries can be.

Bubble99, if you are reading this disregard everything I've said. I think your nursery is lovely.

well, I'm going to a nursery this afternoon unannounced and have phoned a childminder (who actually has a vacancy!) and she has asked me to come a week on Fri due to having a busy week

thanks to everyone it's given me food for thought.. I hadn't thought about personality, though. I guess he's quite shy as we don't have a busy household - just me and my husband (who's out at work all day) and my mum's been visiting once a week since he was born. He's not used to being handled by anyone else at the mo.

I wouldn't want him to be overwhelmed but at the same time, it won't do him any good to stay quiet and shy either.

I'll let you know my findings! thanks

Oh, and Stephen Biddulph is an idiot. Burn that book.

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oh - have only heard positives re Biddulph - was going to get the book!

HMO2 - I don't have a negative view - I would prefer my son to have a warm, loving childminder rather than an impersonal nursery - it was suggested I visit on spec but telling me to come a week on Fri seems a bit too contrived - why is she making it so formal? was expecting a more relaxed welcome to go and meet her....

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She might be busy, or she might want to prepare for you. Maybe you are a much needed client and she wants to be at her best -- or maybe as you say it is a sign that won't be very accommodating.

Interested to know if you get to see the whole nursery. Some will turn you away and say you can't just turn up.

If you can possibly afford it a nanny is great. We had ne from DS 7mo - 15 mo when i got made redundant and he got the one-one care plus she kept to our routine.

If not find a good nursery - seperate sleep room, good staff-kids ratio and definitly drop in unnaounced. I had DS in a nursery that had great policies for 2 months 4-6mo only 2 afternoons but i turned up early one day to collect him and he was slumped in a rocker chair asleep, no cover on him, asleep at his feeding time and I discovered he hadn't had anything to eat all afternoon.

They constantly overbooked and had 2 staff for up to 8 babies and as DS was a happy go lucky kid who didn't cry loudly he was just strapped into a rocker chair and left to it! they even fed him in the chair!!!!

on the other hand CM can nto be the right chocie either. A CM with 2 or 3 active toddlers to amuse won't stay in and do quiet things with a small baby. I wanted to find a CM with only one other child during the day for DS but then i realised that in that case they would likely be doing a whole school run thing from 2.30pm til 4pm.

Some points about expense and nannies:
A nanny will still be able to care for your child if ill, a nursery will refuse the child and you still have to pay.
A nanny can work the exact hours you want. Nurseries require you to book and pay for either a full day or half days. If you work p/t say 9-1pm oyu will often end up paying for a full day cos if you can't get there by 1.30pm (and often its 12.30pm) to pick up it coutns as a full day.
Nannies can work before 8am and after 6pm
If you are confidnet in your ability to train someone then you can advertise for a younger nanny (specify at least one years experience). We did this and got someone with 2 yrs experience but no qualifications. We paid a basic wage but were happy to arrange hours around her training at college. She was happy cos she got the exeperience of sole care.

You can also register a nanny to get childcare tax credit - i'm sure someone else can give you details.