Would anyone care to share their house rules for nannies/au pairs with me?

[MrsFogi]

I'm trying to draw up a list and could do with some inspiration as my brain's not working too well after yet another night of trying to get dd to sleep for more than a couple of hours.

Hi

I've organised for a friend's regular babysitter in Germany to be my au pair from next Summer. So it's great as she's all trained up in childcare, gets on well with one of my best friends (not a guarantee but my friend and I have a similar parenting approach and obv get on with each other) and her English is very good already.

My worry is I'm conversing with her by email in quite a chatty way and I'm wondering whether there's a danger we will become too friendly and then it will be difficult for me to ask her to do stuff when she finally arrives? Any thoughts?

I have mentioned a few of our likely 'rules' to her and she was fine with them.

She is coming over in Easter to stay for a few days so I guess that would be a good opportunity to sit down and talk through everything properly so she is clear on the role.

Not sure what I want re visitors - do any of you ask them not to have any at all as this seems harsh but then again I'd rather not have random people in the house (mind you when my ds is a teenager I'm going to have to have to deal with that a bit!

great post, sashycat

am I the only employer who doesn't care who the nanny brings into the house when they're not working? My view for the nannies we've had has always been that they are adults and they can have anyone in their room/the house when they aren't working. However, they are responsible for that person and our rules about no smoking and no excessive noise (or any noise between the hours of 11pm and 7am) apply to their guests and it is up to them to enforce them.

I'm not sure why I should be worried about their guests or either sex and not at all sure why they have to ask my permission. I suppose it is partly because there is no way I'd take a job which offered accommodation that I couldn't ask friends back for a cup of tea for without someone else's permission. I also, I suppose, don't want to take responsibility for the nanny's personal life by interfering in it.

I have also read this with great interest. and would really appreciate some advice. We are on our 2nd au pair and having just had a talk with my dh, wonder what people actually ask of their au pairs. I know that probably sounds crazy but I am now wondering if I am being too soft. My dh says he would do things very differently if "he was in charge"! He also feels that she is on a pretty cushy number and tells me he can't see what benefit there is in having her as "she appears to do sweet f. a. .... and she is not here on holiday". I find it really hard to delegate. I work from home so am here all the time. I have a 22 month dd and a 6 and a half month old ds. I don't want to have someone take over the childcare, just to have some help. My work is producing a monthly magazine so I am manic for about 10 days each month and need someone who can play with the children or at least my dd, while I make telephone calls and do what I need to do on the pc. With 2 babies so close in age, and with a very difficult 2nd baby, it is really hard to stay on top of housework without some help so having that extra pair of hands makes all the difference. However, the 1st au pair was here over the summer anhd had to go back for uni. She was great - very slow with housework but thorough and delightful with the children. This one is fast with housework but not particularly thorough. Gets on well with children but clearly hasn't got a clue how to entertain a toddler when it's pissing down with rain outside, which does worry me a bit as winter's coming. My dh really doen't think much of her, I don't have a problem with her personality-wise. I find it hard to know what is reasonalble to expect her to do. For eg. Dh says I should ask her to help prepare supper in advance, she eats wiht us so should help; she should help bath children, but I enjoy doing that, in the same way that I like getting them up, we have our own little routine that we all enjoy and I don't want someone else doing it. She goes to language school 3 days a week for the whole morning and is back at about 1.45. On Friday she told me she doesn't like Mondays because she has to "work" a whole day and finds it very tiring. I think we are a pretty good family to be with. She has her own car, own mobile phone, she is absolutely part of the family and is included in whatever we do. She can use the internet whenever she wants - her preferred method of communication with her family/friends. Anyway I have gone on too much; I'm sure you get what I'm on about, so any comments or advice would be most gratefuuly received!!

hm.
It does sound as though she has a pretty good place with you, and she isnt being asked to do unreasonable amounts of work. You have to go with your instinct about how much work you can ask them to do, really. Men have a tendency to think that women in the house arent working, I have to point out to my ex how much the AP does, without him even noticing. He keeps telling me to get her to do more as well, but I have resisted so far.

On the other hand, if you are relying on her to take the children off your hands for a certain number of hours per week, then shes got to do that. I wouldnt be particularly sympathetic about complaints of working all day Monday. Most APs work all day, 5 or 6 or even 7 days a week.
Can you get some more games that she could entertain the 3 year old with? Maybe she needs a training session or two. Also, I would say firmly that you are going to work now, and disappear, lock the door and not come out again until lunchtime. My last AP had a tendency to think "Oh, Shoko's in the house, she can look after the children", er in fact, Im busy earning your salary, love.

How long has she been with you? If it?s really early days you could always sit down and say to her what she does best and what?s not working? I would do it anyway and start with a list of thing?s to do to entertain the kids. And the help you need around the house. Could she take the children out in the car to toddler group?s?

She may be on a cushy number and possibly taking the piss, especially not helping at supper time. I expect our to help clear away at weekend ( like everyone even the kids) if I have been slaving in the kitchen cooking something nice

Hi

Yes an interesting situation. I totally agree with the others who said to give her a list of activities that work for your toddler and maybe set up an 'activity cupboard' or drawer where there are things she could use e.g. paints, playdough etc

I am quite worried I will have similar problems when my (1st) AP arrives as I know I am rubbish at giving the cleaner feedback and asking her to do extra tasks. Weird as when I worked in an office I never had a problem doing people's appraisals!

I will be working at home too and guess I'm going to have to be strict about closing the door behind me. I also know I am going to find it hard to let go of some of the tasks I actually quite enjoy with ds but I suppose I will have to one day anyway when he goes to school!

Cloudberry - I'm a freelance journo so am curious about your magazine. Which one is it?

Thank you for your comments. She has been with us for 6 weeks this Tuesday coming. I think the suggestions of making her a list of things to do with children and also in house are good ideas. House stuff though is really basic: keep bins empty, esp ones with dirty nappies: tidy up after children particularly at the end of the day - vital for some semblance of order: keep on top of washing; push hoover round house and keep kitchen tidy. As we don't live in a palace it's not really too demanding. I suppose I'd love someone who is able to use their initiative and look to see what needs doing next instead of coming and saying to me "I've finished now, can I go on the internet?". My response to that is "Oh alright then" thinking bugger what else can I give her to do instead. This is one of my problems, I worry about asking her to do too much though just writing this makes me think Hang on, if she finishes everything so quickly she's not working too hard is she? Or being asked to do too much? Clearly I am expecting too much in respect of use of initiative. She is 21 though and has lived on her own at university so I would expect a bit of nouse.

Entertaining my dd is simple. She's such an easy-going cheerful little thing and I have stuff like paint and sponges etc etc. My ds is more of a problem because he's a real Mummy's boy and also howls if he's put down which is exhausting and drives me demented. Maybe yes I just have to be absolutely firm about going into the office to work, and make it clear that during that time her only priority is the children, housework etc can wait till later.

In fact though I've told her that after Christmas we shall be having some time with no au pair to see how we cope. We're lucky in that my mum lives very close to us and has said that she could have them for half days when I need to work, and we could get a cleaner for the house. I don't know if it'll work. Partly it's true and partly I'm an absolute coward and have chickened out of telling her that we're not 100% happy with how it's working out and would rather not have her for any longer than that, which would be about 3 and a half months.

Boo64, it's very very unglamorous and unexciting - just an advertising magazine. But extremely convenient to do from home with kids.

Maybe you need to define her day in terms of what hours you expect her to work, rather than what jobs?
Hopefully you'd be luckier next time.

Hi

Just an idea does anyone think it'd be good to set up a thread for AP employers similar to the CM club?

mm I dont know, it might get a bit us and them. There are loads of threads about employing an AP.

cloudberry, we too are on our second au pair and having some of the same issues as you. We had a wonderful experience with our first one, who spoke poor English but had a great attitude with both kids and housework. This one likes looking after my one-year-old (which is how she spends most of her time since I work part-time), but struggles with our older son (who's fortunately in school most of the time) and is hopeless with housework/cooking.

What I would say is:

1. Don't worry too much about your DH's opinion. I too have a DH who is out at work from 7 till 7 and then comes home and thinks he knows how things should be run in the house while he's out. Well, he doesn't. He also thinks our au pair has a good deal, and she does, in many ways, but you know, the point is not to make the au pair your slave, but to have a happy relationship with her where both she and you are satisfied. I think my DH sometimes forgets about the first part of that equation.

2. I too work at home and I find the only way to make this viable is to shut myself away when I have work to do. This has 2 advantages - first, I get the work done, and second, the au pair learns to cope with the kid(s) on her own, which she needs to do. If I hear yelling/wailing/whatever, and it goes on for more than a few minutes, then I do pop down to see what's going on and what I can do to help/advise. But I pop right back up again shortly afterwards.

If you feel the au pair does not really know what to do with the kids, suggest things to her. You may have the paints in the cupboard, but she doesn't really think of using them, for example, and your children are too young to think of it on their own too. So, maybe you say to her, "It's raining today, so why don't you do some painting with the children?" and then show her where the stuff is. She is an au pair and not a nanny - unless you're very lucky she is unlikely to have lots of great ideas for entertaining your kids on rainy days.

3. Definitely do not give the au pair the jobs you love doing yourself, like bathing the kids! I made this mistake for a while - it's totally pointless. Have her use that time to help catch up on housework instead, if you need it.

4. A strict schedule works wonders. Does your au pair have set hours? Does she know exactly what she's supposed to be doing, at those times? For our current au pair, I find that giving general instructions like "make sure the bins are always empty" produces no results. Instead, I've now tried to be more specific, saying "when baby is sleeping, this is what we need you to do: Monday - empty bins, take out recycling; Tuesday - iron; etc." Still does not get perfect results, but better.

5. If she's eating with you, then she should help out. I told ours that if I was cooking, and she wanted to eat with us, we would appreciate it if she would either help with preparation or help with doing the dishes. So, she helps with the dishes.

6. Ours also works all day, one day a week (she is an au pair plus), and while I think she finds it tough, I don't think this is at all unusual to ask your au pair to do. If yours really feels hard done by because she has to work a full day, maybe there is a way you can alleviate the problem. If you can, maybe give her a break for an hour or an hour and a half, and play with the kids yourself during that time? That's what I'm trying to do this week with ours, since both are home for half-term.

I hope this helps a little. We are also struggling a bit with our au pair, and not sure whether we'll keep her on after Christmas, but I think we're making some progress. I hope so, anyway! Good luck.

Defiantly a detailed list works wonders for me, it compensates for lack of initiative. when ours is on duty, she must be available (downstairs with us not waiting on standby in her room)for helping out. Even if she has finished tidying the toys, there are endless other things she can help with.

It?s always worth finding out what you AP is good at: If you?re unlucky like me, then it would be,
Very good at - Telling lies, watching endless T.V from Teletubbie?s to Alan Titchmarsh. Text messaging with one hand, and smoke with the other, (making lovely little puff circles)
French manicures.
Not very good at - speaking English, housework and smiling.
Au pair only lasted 3weeks, and left me with a legacy, and indentations of her bottom the sofa.

I dream about our once brilliant Au pair, that enjoyed Ironing as much as I hated it, had bags patients with the children and could play the guitar, did french and Science homework with DS. She did look half asleep most the time, but was in fact really on the ball, and we liked her very much.

All week, I have had my fingers (and toes) crossed for our new arrival at weekend. I am currently making my AP to-do-list and smartening up the house, and bribing the children to be extra nice as I?m extremely optimistic and really desperate.

Reading this is making me cringe as I think of the things I have let our last two AP's get away with - I must be the wimpiest person out there. Definitely very strange that can take control of very serious situations at work but worry about upsetting a 21 year old.We have only had AP's since children school age so ours is a different situation, but we have had the p**s taken out of us.We were just so keen to make them happy,I think we felt so sorry for them when they first arrived. With the latest one - only been here ten days or so - we have made an EXTREMELY comprehensive listof duties. which looked very intimidting but is working so far(but it is very early days and I have been off work a lot so have been able to supervise)It is hard for me to set an exact timetable as DH and I work shifts, however I am definitely getting tougher - for example we never put limits on internet use as it costs nothing extra,but the last one spent so much time on it that it used to raise my hackles every time I saw her on it - she used to stand literally inches from me watching what I was doing hovering for me to get off when I was using the computer.Well the study door has a lock on it now.One occassion in particular springs to mind when I was using computer - the icon flashed to say she had an MSN (if thats the correct terminology -I dont use MSN) and she actually reached over to the keyboard/mouse to try and view it whilst I was actually reading something on screen! That was the first time I actually had a cross word with her. Other examples of poor behaviour include being asleep upstairs whilst children getting their own tea, which consisted of breakfast cereal.Not letting the dogs out all day so they ended up messing in the house by back door, which was left stinking the house out for hours.And I could go on.However I blame myself for not taking control of this situation and supervising closely, which has now changed.Our secret weapon is that DH has quite unpredictable hours and can arrive home unexpectedly after been at work for just a few hours(only to return to work later that day)I have emphasised this to AP so she realises she could be caught out at any time sleeping on the job for example.Also recently widowed fil has a lot of time on his hands and he is going to call at the house randomly to visit children, do little odd jobs around the house etc.iknow this is a bit nanny-cam-ish but its tough. Must say however both girls saving grace was that the children liked both of them,which I suppose, as I dont work at home, is the most important thing.

For me, it took a few AP experiences to realize the lengths I needed to go to make sure APs meet our needs, and started to resent parting with my hard earned cash. I also try and work with what they can do very well, like some sports, or music, or baking with the children, and now use a cleaner to make sure housework gets done properly. Equally some jobs they have to get used to doing, like the ironing and I insist it?s done to a decent standard and will show AP time- after- time if necessary. I would definitely check up on AP from time to time, unannounced visits from my family and friends ect.

I have made a few ( massive) blunders especially with last AP ? (called Kat) that only lasted 3 weeks. Previous AP helped with recruiting, and in retrospect she was ?sounding alarm bells? AP spoke to Kat on the phone, and said she got the picture that a few things didn?t add up. However I took for granted her account of her childcare experience and rang her last family who verified this, and gave a wonderful reference. I later found out it was a fake family and was in fact her Aunt living in the UK. I can?t say too much, but I became suspicious long before this happened. Our children were AP last priority, and would stop what she doing taking calls or text on her mobile and run off to check mail on the computer, when should have been looking after the children. She also would go out at night and not come home until V.late with no explanation!! So I decided checked up on what she was doing, and turns out she was meeting up with men, I think she had met on the internet, she had only been here 10 days and one evening AP told me she was going for a walk (didn?t yet know anyone in the area) rang to say she wasn?t coming home that night. I had a serious discussion with AP things went from bad to worse and asked her to leave immediately, after sorting out her travel arrangements. It was such a reief and believe me there was no innocent explantions

The up shot is, that I would have found out sooner or later, and no real harm done, but no doubt would have given me loads of problems in the long term. If this is true - She is now somewhere in Midlands as an AP with a single parent family and of course, has not given me her address details.

It really depends on the AP though. One of the best APs I ever had used to stay out late, and go clubbing every week, and stay out nights with her boyfriend. But she was very professional about her job, always there on time, and always gave 100% to the children. I cant really complain about them looking for boyfriends on the internet when Im doing the same thing myself lol.

Wouldnt put up with surfing the internet in work time though. My employer wont let me do it!

Oh no problem with looking for boyfriends on the net or going out clubbing i thought the same at first. but she wasn't looking for BF materialor going out clubbing. The sites were sleezy stuff, I just think she had a lot problems or worse. I would never trust her alone in my home while I was on hoilday or babysitting with the children.

Thanks for this - I have just used this thread to put together a list of Rules for our au pair who arrives next Tuesday... Very helpful although some of the stories are a bit scary...

Mumpbump, how's it going with your new au pair? I'd be really interested to know. Also: MizZan have you decided to keep your one on after Christmas? and artist67 how is your new au pair? I don't know if any of you will come back on this thread but as I said, I'd love to know. Our one is definitely going before Christmas. We have found a new German girl who is starting in the New Year so I'm hoping I've learnt a lot from how I've handled the expereince with our aurrent au pair. She is really turning out to be unsatisfactory, just simply taking the piss which is making me feel extremely . Very slap dash and lazy and quite arrogant. My dh suggested we ask her to leave but I feel I must give her the benefit of the doubt and sit down and tell her I'm not happy. If there is then no improvement well maybe getting her to leave is best. 6 weeks is a long time to spend feeling so wound up by someone that you want to scream everytime they open their mouth!! Really feeling pissed off about it right now and wanted to let off steam.

hi cloudberry - well, I'm still not sure if we're keeping ours or not. I asked her straight out how she felt about coming back after Christmas (she's going home then) and she indicated she wasn't really sure, which to me means she's pretty much planning on not coming back. On our side we've been going back and forth about whether to keep her or not, so maybe this is for the best.

She is still very nice with my 1 year old, but half-term was a bit of a disaster with her basically unable to look after my 4-year old with any success at all, meaning I had to take a bunch of unplanned time off work to cover. I have pretty much abandoned the idea of getting her to do any housework other than ironing and very basic stuff like unloading the dishwasher and laundry. She has an attitude problem in several areas (e.g., invited her to eat with us on the weekend, which she happily accepted, only to bolt down her dinner in 10 minutes and stuff her dishes in the dishwasher with never a thank-you nor an offer to help clean up...needless to say we won't be offering again!) and seems completely unable to accept constructive criticism - and I wouldn't even call it criticism, it's stuff like:

Me: "X, I wanted to remind you that Baby now needs 8 oz in his bottles, rather than 7 (this after I had told her the day before and she'd gone ahead and made the smaller bottles again anyway)
Her: "You never told me that."
Me: "I did, but maybe you just misunderstood."
Her: "No, you definitely never told me."

Not really sure how to deal with this, but obviously it's not going to change.

I'd be interested to know how you found your new German au pair? We are thinking of trying to have a nanny instead, but since it's only part-time, I'm not sure how much luck we'll have finding someone (we're not in london). I found our current au pair on greataupair.com, which was also how I found our previous really wonderful au pair, but both times I've used it I ended up wasting a lot of time going back and forth with au pairs who eventually blew us off, for a variety of reasons. I don't think I have the time or patience to go through that again now.

We found our new au pair on aupairworld.net. In fact, I found her by going through the au pair listings and clicking on the "we're interested in you" button. She'd had over 55 hits so I was rather amazed that she responded to me at all. She's training to be a primary school teacher and had had nursery school training too so I'm really keeping fingers crossed here for a very different experience . My sister in law only ever has German au pairs for their efficiency and the fact they generallly seem to have more experience with children. I know that sounds odd but it's something to do with having to have training or experience at kindergarten level if they want to work with children. Well that's what I think she told me anyway ...! I liked her responses to basic questions I asked her and I suppose at the end of the day it's pot luck and you have to go with a gut feeling. Interestingly my dh didn't like the look of our current ap in the photos she sent us, but I overrode him because at the end of August when we were looking she was the only option we had, ie the only person who had expressed an interest. Just shows I should listen to him next time!

A week after I told our ap that we were thinking of going it alone in the New Year, I asked her if she would like to come back to us if we changed our mind and like yours she shrugged and said she didn't know if she would be coming back to England at all, having told me a few days before that she'd like to get another job here. So I thought well stuff you then, and stopped feeling guilty; and lo this other girl appeared.

What irritates me is that instead of being a help I seem to be clearing up behind her while she either sits and watches (!) while ostensibly "feeding" dd who is perfectly capable of feeding herself, or stuff is left half done when she decided she's done for the day. Grrrrr .... I must be more assertive here. This evening she left the kitchen looking like a bomb had hit it. I was feeding the dogs when she pops her head round the door and tells me she's off out for the evening. That really got to me. My dh thinks I'm over-reacting, but I think it's pretty rude not to say to me " If you don't need anything else doing, is it OK to go out now?" She was at school all the morning so it's not like she's been slaving since dawn. Perhaps I am over-reacting I don't know. Anyway I must stop ranting now. It is a high class problem after all ....!!!! But I do know how you feel.

Helloooo ........ Anybody out there?

Hi Cloudberry

Our AP has been with us for a few week; she?s really nice fluent English and really making an effort.

However, I?m so surprised at how slow she is, given her age and the fact she lives on her own. ( took her 1 hour to tidy kitchen and empty the dishwasher). She is currently doing less than 25 hours a week( this will change next week) but still doesn?t manage to get the ironing up to date . I have to keep prompting her and feel like I?m nagging as she will watch me struggle.
I have had a gentle word highlighting the speed she does things, like emptying dishwasher is only a 10mins job and toy tidying ect, and therefore we are not getting out of the house on time. She now realizes how busy I am ? when I work from home I am really working, and not available?. Since then things have improved a little, although she seems petrified of our 3 year old ? who is a very strong character and needs a firm approach, and so far avoided any contact that involves doing something he won?t like.
With the older children, homework is up-to ?date and has does lots of interesting activities with them.
On the whole I would say this is a good start. But I am not sure she will last. I asked her ?is this what she expected ? and the answer was NO. We have cleaner but AP was surprise at how much practical thing she has to do !! Like Ironing, keeping on top of play room and children?s room?s and toy tidying and ect ? beforehand, I sent all a list of all the duties and expectations including jobs she doesn?t do, like cleaning the children?s bathroom. Hovering light house work,which she said she read but underestimated it all. And she does far less than our last AP.

She though most of her time would be devoted to the children, I said ?the idea is that I get some free time to do nice things with the children?

Can I ask a slightly off thread question? Do any of you leave the au pair in sole charge of older children e.g. 4 year olds and over? Could they cope with that for 3 hours, or would i be expecting too much?