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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Mature Lady Required

52 replies

nannynick · 25/09/2014 13:25

Yesterday I came across an advert from a nanny agency in which it said:

Mature Lady Required

I contacted the agency and the advert was quickly amended. So well done to the agency concerned for quickly responding to a complaint but should it have happened in the first place?

Anyone can run a nanny agency. No training required. They don't need to know the Non-Broadcast CAP Code, The Equality Act (2010) or any other legislation. They certainly should know about all legislation and codes of conduct that apply to what they are doing but many seem to ignore, forget, or feel they can advertise for whatever the client wants.

Have you come across job listings (adverts) which may breach Equality legislation or advertising standards?

What things have you seen - a specific nationality wanted? A specific gender? Applicants only of certain age, or age range? Wanting someone thin?

Can't say I have seen one specifically saying they want someone White, or Black - that sort of thing would generate complaints. Yet discrimination on grounds of age is something that is happening but do people complain? Should we complain more?

As a nanny entering their 40's I may be considered to be 'mature' but what about those nannies just starting out in their career, if parents only want an older nanny, then what chance to those younger nannies have?

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Crowen85 · 25/09/2014 16:27

I don't see the problem tbh! It's their child and they have the right to hire someone that works for them.

It was just that particular job that called for an older nannie.

Artandco · 25/09/2014 16:39

I don't see the problem either. Nannying is often a very private thing. People can choose who they like

A friend is a nanny to a lovely family in Saudi arabi. She started when baby was newborn and helped mother master breastfeeding etc. Why bother saying man or lady when they will only hire a lady due to religious rules? A man would be pointless in this situation as wouldn't be allowed in same room as lady not related alone, and def not half undressed!

Yangsun · 25/09/2014 16:44

I don't know what the legislation says (but believe you that it's illegal!) However I would rather they did specify if that is their criteria. Otherwise I might waste time applying for a job I had no chance of getting.

Crowen85 · 25/09/2014 16:47

Yangsun I was up against another nanny for a job I really wanted etc. And mum choose the other nanny because she was mature. Would of saved me a lot of wasted time in train fairs to london etc. If she had said in the first place they wanted w mature nanny.

Cindy34 · 25/09/2014 17:03

Parents can choose who they employ but why rule out applicants so early on in the recruiting process?

Agencies I feel should be pointing out to parents that their ideal candidate may not fit their initial idea, such as mature person.

Clearly before time is wasted doing interviews candidates should be shortlisted but when an agency places an ad, shouldn't they make the job as appealing to as many nannies as possible?

Somone post on here wanting a Filipino nanny and they get lots of negative feeback. Yet it's ok for them to say they only want someone older, in their 40's+?

Crowen85 · 25/09/2014 17:14

Hmm I don't know I mean as a nanny I have certain criteria and so I can't fault parents for having it either. For example a very religious family need a nanny who can understand their religion. Or a sporty family will want a fit active nanny!

Or some families are relaxed and have little criteria. I am about to take over from a family with a new born who have a philipeono nanny who has been treated like family member! So that wouldn't bother me either.

Nannying is a very personal job, this person is caring for your child, in your house and often living in your house so yes you have the right to choose exactly who you want doing that job.

nannynick · 25/09/2014 18:50

Nannying is often a very private thing. People can choose who they like

Yes I agree. Though why would parents want to limit who they would consider interviewing?

I am not talking about the final decision stage of the recruitment process but the initial stage when an advert is placed, surely the point of advertising is to see who is interested and then see if they meet criteria.

An agencies job is to sell candidates to employers - the employer pays the agency to find them the best candidate for the job.

Why bother saying man or lady when they will only hire a lady due to religious rules?

That could be mentioned if a man did apply for the specific job. Being a bloke I am used to agencies saying that there is no hope of getting the job. For many jobs though, a good agency can sell me to parents due to my experience, location, flexibility, that sort of thing.

A man would be pointless in this situation as wouldn't be allowed in same room as lady not related alone, and def not half undressed!

This surely applies in very few of the jobs advertised in the UK. It would be more of an issue in maternity nurse positions I feel, not the more general nanny positions, caring for babies/toddlers/school aged children whilst parents are at work.

However I would rather they did specify if that is their criteria. Otherwise I might waste time applying for a job I had no chance of getting.

That is one way of looking at it but there are many factors why parents choose one nanny over another. Would you expect the agency to list all the factors so you did not waste time applying?

Are parents really unwilling to have a nanny who does not have a minimum of 10 years nannying experience? If someone had 9 years of nannying experience, would they really rule them out just because they did not have 10 years?

mum choose the other nanny because she was mature.
How do you know it was not due to another factor? At least you got an interview so they must have had the intention to at least consider you, which is more than you would have got had they put in the ad that they required someone Mature.

Yes it is a waste of time to go for interviews when they have no intention of considering you, I have been for that type of interview before. "Oh lets interview a male nanny so we can boast to our friends that we have met one!" A good agency though will not put you forward though for such positions where they feel there is no hope of you getting the job - waste of time for them, their client and for you.

Parents can choose who they employ but why rule out applicants so early on in the recruiting process?

Sure the parents can ultimately choose who they employ. As you say though, it's the very early stage reducing the candidate pool which seems strange to me.

Somone post on here wanting a Filipino nanny and they get lots of negative feeback.
Yes I have seen that many times over the years of being on here. Rightly so, why want a nanny from a particular country? If they want someone who speaks a certain language there are ways to phrase that in job ads.

For example a very religious family need a nanny who can understand their religion. Or a sporty family will want a fit active nanny!

Yes but you can understand a religion without being in that religion. Fit active nanny - would that rule out someone who is on the plumper side, even if they did frequent workouts at the gym?

Fitting in with the families lifestyle is important but it can be learnt over time for many things in my view. If a family is sporty and you are not very sporty, you can learn to enjoy it if you get health club membership as part of the job. You may not be a Tennis Pro but you may get good enough to at least have a knock about.

Nannying is a very personal job, this person is caring for your child, in your house and often living in your house so yes you have the right to choose exactly who you want doing that job.

Yes but in the UK there is legislation which must be complied with to do with discrimination. Agencies are liable for adverts they place, so good agencies will be careful with how they word things and will sell candidates who meet most of the criteria, as finding someone who fits the entire criteria may be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Maybe IABU to expect agencies to guide parents as to what is and is not allowed, and how things can be phased such that the job is made attractive to as many candidates as possible.

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Artandco · 25/09/2014 19:36

I think it's just simpler to specify

Unfit nanny - sure they can learn, but if their job involves cycling 3 miles each way to and from school with kids x2 a day, how long is it going to take someone who's unfit to be able to do 12 mile cycle daily? Parents don't have months to wait.

Same with everything ie religion/ whether they drive etc

If they live 20 miles from anything, of course they need a driver, they are discriminating against someone who can't drive, just saying straight off that that doesn't work for them

ChippingInLatteLover · 25/09/2014 19:47

I think a family should be able to state exactly the sort of nanny they want for their children. They shouldn't have to wade through hundreds of applicants, waste time in interviews and generally mess the nannies around too when they already know what they want.

It's up to them if they want a 'Big Sister' type nanny or a 'Mature Nanny'. A nanny that speaks French/German/Polish. A 'quiet' nanny that like to read & bake or a sporty nanny that loves to be playing tennis.

Whatever they want for their family.

Honest to god, it's all just getting a little bit tiresome.

sweetboysmum · 27/09/2014 00:24

Don't see the problem with it tbh. Perhaps there is more to it. Maybe the child doesn't have a granny or older relative and they want qualities they believe an older person may give. Whether this is right or wrong I don't know, but they are hiring the nanny aren't they?

So the advert is changed and now a lot of people will probably waste their time. I (very briefly) studied employment law and there were certain circumstances where you could specify what you want eg Chinese person for Chinese restaurant or a woman for a Womans Aid type of charity.

nannynoss · 27/09/2014 08:59

I completely agree with you Nick. It's one thing saying 'French speaker desired but not essential' but to just say 'French nanny wanted' is unfair.
I have taken two jobs where both parents had originally wanted a mature lady (or at least a nanny aged 30years+) but realised I was actually very mature for my age so offered me the jobs.

I also worked for another family that said they only wanted fit nannies, but never stated that on the advert. They just decided at the interview whether the nanny was fit enough to fit into their sporty lifestyle or not.

Artandco · 27/09/2014 09:02

Nanny moss - but what if they only speak French? French person is therefore essential not optional

nannynoss · 27/09/2014 11:33

We are talking about hiring nannies in the UK though aren't we? Surely if you didn't speak English then you would go with a French nanny agency.

Artandco · 27/09/2014 12:11

Many many families in the uk don't speak English well. They will ask someone to translate needs to nanny agency. Sure they will learn but can you imagine arriving in uk with say 4 children and leaving them with a nanny they don't understand at all? Strange country/ new life, at least a common language helps. Yes it will prob be nannies job to teach English, but having natie language prob essential the first year or so.

Really, surely you must understand that? Do you not live in London? As it's more common to have foreign language as home language now than English in many areas.

nannynick · 27/09/2014 12:27

No, many of us do not live in London. There are lots of towns and cities around the UK, many not in England.

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nannynick · 27/09/2014 12:29

Why would a parent want someone with 15 years nanny experience but reject someone with 9yrs?

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nannynoss · 27/09/2014 12:34

I can understand that, but I still think it is wrong to ask for certain things in a job advert when it is against discrimination laws to do it in any other job. You would never see a job advert for a council worker saying 'looking for French lady aged 25-35', which I think is the point Nick is making.

JLucky · 27/09/2014 12:47

I don't agree with adverts like this but they can stop applicants wasting their time. The family have already (unfairly) decided the 'type' of person they want, so who ever applies for the job, they are likely to choose someone who fits what they're looking for in that way.
I am sad that people have these prejudices, but unfortunately some do.

nannynick · 27/09/2014 15:15

This has been happening for years. We are finally seeing agencies accept that Gross pay is the way people are paid. Now it is time the industry complied with advertising codes of conduct and discrimination legislation.
It would not be acceptable in the public sector so why should it be acceptable in private staff recruitment?

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FlorenceMattell · 27/09/2014 16:10

Agree with NannyNick
As professional people nannies should be treated with respect. Ads for nannies should not be racist, or ageist or discriminate in any way.

Artandco · 27/09/2014 16:30

But it is acceptable in all jobs.

Ie police force for example can specify height range.
No point in not advertising it, as someone say 5ft, wouldn't be allowed in certain parts of the job

A sales job requiring you to speak English and Chinese would be stupid not to advertise. If you went and only spoke English it would be a Waste of everyone time

A job that requires you to be fit should be able to specify. If you have chronic asthma and joint pain, you aren't going to be able to do the job

Same with ' mature'. In the case above family probably wanted mature grandmother type to be around. A family with say 5 children under 5, would want the opposite as I'm sure would worry about an older persons health chasing them around. Age not specified, so mature can be interpreted

SWIMTHECHANNEL · 27/09/2014 16:34

Mature doesn't necessarily mean 'older'.. It means 'fully developed'. Young people aren't necessarily immature.

Specifying a lady though ... that seems off.

PacificDogwood · 27/09/2014 16:36

Hm, interesting one, I think this point does not just apply to nanny/childcare positions though, does it?

We posted 'experienced nanny required' and I was rather HmmGrin but the number of 17 year olds who replied who had babysat their nephew once but felt they were up to being in sole charge of 4 DCs for 35+ hrs/week Grin. I replied very gently to all of them.

At work we are currently recruiting and have a very formal point-scoring system wrt to CVs and shortlisting (names, Dob, gender removed from CVs) which is all v correct, but IMO a bit pointless because one can assume that if somebody left school in 2012 they are not likely to be 45, non?

I agree also a person's maturity does not correlate to their biological age.

Hmm

Minefield.

Sunflowersareblue · 27/09/2014 16:44

You are getting confused with the legalities. Private individuals can employ who they like in their own homes. There are no laws, I believe, about discrimination, when it's a private home. Hence agencies can be as specific as they like. If a family want an older person, then they can say that. The agency can advertise that because the nanny will not be employed by the agency, but by a private individual in their own home, hence not breaking any laws.

nannynick · 27/09/2014 19:08

Does the agency not still need to comply with advertising standards, codes of conduct, as any other company in the UK needs to do?

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