Is there no obligation to provide childcare?

[LogonMounstuart]

I have posted before about my struggle to find childcare as DS1 starts school. There is an accute shortage of childminders and no wrap around care at the school. All before and after school clubs are linked to schools and only offer places to pupils of those schools. Massive shortage of school places with children in catchment not getting a place so no choice to move schools...

So my question is- is there no obligation e.g on LAs to provide the option of childcare?

As it stands parents of children attending my sons school either employ a nanny or don't work (neither of which we can afford to do).

It just seems so unfair that if you end up at this school you have to stop working (or in jobs that are more flexible than mine significantly curtail working hours). I need to work, but I want to too. I have worked a long time to build a successful career. I am still so stuck and running out of time :(

Agree with MissMarples - did you really not think about this before having a child? Your child will be sick occasionally, there will be inset days, half days etc etc. I find it hard to believe that intelligent adults don't look into all these sorts of things before making the decision to have a child . Or am I just too boringly practical. .

I agree with others, surely it's part of parenting to have worked out how to managed the child care? It's the parent's obligation not the State's. Any wrap around care provided by schools is great and very welcome. But to make it an obligation has massive funding and staffing issues.

It's harsh to say "look into it before having a child" - as OP has said, her nearest school is the only one without a club, she may have expected one to open, or to be able to get a place at one of the other schools, or to be able to access CMs etc.

I understand your position entirely, Logon.

This is where a state-subsidised system would be better. At the moment it is highly unlikely that anyone would want to set up in your school, because demand is patchy. But if the school were given £x per year to run provision then it might begin with some empty places and then gradually fill up as parents realised what it could offer them.

After school clubs were originally given support under the new Labour extended schools strategy, but that has long since gone and they are quite hard to sustain eg. who wants to work 3.00-6.00pm each day?

I don't mean to be harsh. It just the reality

And, to be fair, I think you will find that the teachers already work at least those hours. The before and after school time is when the assessing and planning happens. So other staff would have to be employed for those parts of the day (or more teachers so that they have time freed up during the day).

A nanny share will be a bit more in total but less per person, OP.

I don't think the lack of after school care in your school is to do with local economics, though they are linked. Ultimately, any school that thinks there is a demand for only a few after school places, whether that's because of a glut of childminders, a high number of SAHPs or everyone having a nanny or local retired relatives, one won't be established.

Is your younger child currently in day care? Would the day care setting continue to accommodate DS1, at least until he is 5, if someone else could drop him off there from school?

We chose our house to be by a school that had wrap around care

I think that saying 'it is the parent's responsibility not the state's responsibility' is all very well, but much of what we have around today only exists because of the huge investment in provision made by the New Labour and successive governments.

Sure start and children's centres
After school clubs, as above
Huge investment in training for the children's workforce
Free early education for three to four year olds
Free early education for two year olds
LA support for nurseries, CM etc
Various grants and schemes offering funding or training to childcare providers.

Etc

It's fine to plan to a certain extent. But how can you factor in house moves and changes in jobs / childcare availability? I don't think it's realistic to know before your child is born what after school arrangements you are going to have in place. I've moved across the the country whilst my DC are still preschool and in my "plan" I always assumed there will be some form of childcare available, especially childminders who generally do after school pick ups. If sounds like the OP is having problems accessing anything suitable. Although she does also seem to live in a v.expensive area based on the net nanny £ph rates she's quoted.

Teachers almost never work in after school clubs - they are (at present) separate organisations with separate employees, registration etc. TAs sometimes also take on a second job in the after school club, which can work quite well, otherwise the after school club manager and staff (external provider) arrive on school premises at about 3.00pm, set up and get ready for the children. So at present if no one wants to do that, a school HT has very little incentive to make that happen. They have enough to do already! Whereas if there was a fund in the school budget that was ring-fenced for childcare and a statutory requirement that after-school care was provided, then the OP's situation would probably not exist...

I don't really understand what you mean MissMarples - are you saying that before my child was born, I should have known what school he would go to, where we would be living, what hours we would be working and what childcare there would be available?

5 years ago I really couldn't have planned for having to move house, not getting into our first choice school due to a shortage of school places, no after school club at the school we got and no childminders with spaces picking up from there.

I am a cm, currently unable to work as recovering from surgery. There are no childminders with before and after school spaces in my area, and I know of four lovely childminders who have given up the job, disillusioned by the ridiculous paperwork and pressure we are under from Ofsted. This is becoming more and more common now, and the trouble is that parents assume there will always be cm's with spaces, it's just not the case anymore. I don't know anyone who wants to become a cm now.

Despite having had two major operations I am being pressurised by some of my parents to promise I will go back to work by a certain date. I can see that it is a problem for them but it's not going to happen.

OP, see if you can find a local FB page for all the cm's in your area, sometimes newly registered ones will be on there asking for advice. If there are any.

Your major resource is the other parents. You say that there are a small group of you in the same position. I'd suggest
A) organising a 3 way after-school nanny share at the home of the person with the largest house (who would pay less than the other two)
B) asking the existing nanny employers whether any of them would be interested in you sharing their nanny afterschool - if their budgets are tight then they may well be interested and the nannies might welcome the extra work for an extra 50 quid a week (or whatever).
C) look for a student to "nanny" cut price in your house, it is just babysitting really.
D) get all the interested families together and set up an afterschool club in a village hall (or the school facilities ideally) - employing a couple of people, possibly even a couple of SAHMs from the school.

None of these are great options, they all have problems and pitfalls, but they are all better than ditching a career you've taken a decade to build.

What childcare do you use now? I assume from your info that you work.

Some good ideas, LadyIsabella, but to do option D you have to be Ofsted registered, insured, have appropriately trained and qualifed staff...

I think the nanny share is the way forward in the meantime.

D is definitely tricky, but far from impossible for a handful of competent and motivated parents to do - AFAIK the regs for an after school club are less onerous than for a full nursery or FT CM. Probably not possible within the 6 week time period the OP has left though.

A is also tricky as under childcare legislation it requires registration. Two families sharing a nanny (children cared for at the same time) is fine but when it is three families it is considered to be childminding even if it is at the home of one of the children. Though would anyone know? It could invalidate things like insurance.

It is a problem in some areas, possibly a lot a lot of areas. Schools don't have after-school clubs. One of the local schools near me does not have an after-school club but someone set one up in a local village hall and has a mini-bus which goes around several schools collecting children.

LogonMounstuart - you mention DS1 but also later on say Children. So how many do you have? Will it become even more of an issue as they get older, so having several children at school?

Are the nanny costs realistic, they seem rather high in terms of net wage. Could well be the total cost to employer. If childminder rates are around £5 an hour, then are nanny costs really that high. I nanny in an area where childminder rates are £5 an hour and as a nanny I do not get as much as £9.50net (though I do all day, not just after school and shorter hours may well bump up the cost per hour).

I had this exact problem OP and have only just found an after school childminder now. The school DD is attending does have wrap around care and even though I applied as soon as she got in I did not get a place as demand is too high.

I looked at an after school nanny and it does work out cheaper to do a nanny share. I nanny would have cost £10 - £12ph but a nanny share would have been £7. Obviously there is the cost of tax etc which also has be factored in. If you an go in with other families then you can share the nanny's tax free allowance I believe.

I posed on MN local, NetMums local and called everyone on the childcare.co.uk website and eventually found someone through that. I also asked other parents and the school if they had any numbers. It was pretty stressful but I finally got there. Good luck

To all the people saying you should plan for this before you have a child, how ridiculous. Since having a child I have become a lone parent, had to take a cut in earnings and lost two childminders. Life happens, you can plan as much as you like but the fact is finding after school care is much harder than full day care as most CM offer full time places only or only do one school for pick ups and drop offs.
You can not arrange this until you actually know which school your child will be attending unless you are in a fortunate enough position to have money for a nanny.

None of this is helping solve your problem for September.

You contacted childminders probably around April/May time, have you tried getting in touch with them again to check nothing has changed?

Focus on childminders who live near the school, so more likely to consider collecting from there. Also get the list of childminders from the local authority every 2 weeks - new minders take a while to appear on the system but by getting an updated list every 2 weeks you should see if anyone new registers.
Do not use online systems - get the emailed/written version from the local authority. Extra permissions are needed to be on the online lists, so not all childminders may appear on that.

Having looked at the Ofsted website, in the village in which I work there are 2 childminders within 1 mile of the school and I would estimate that between them they have a maximum of 8 childcare places. The school is putting in a request to be expanded from 3 class Infant to becoming a primary school - would love to know what they are thinking of doing about wraparound care, there is virtually none.

If you an go in with other families then you can share the nanny's tax free allowance I believe.

You should not be agreeing to a Net Wage. Agree a Gross wage and then the cost to employer is Gross Salary + Employers NI + activities/mileage.
With part-time employees it is especially important to agree a gross wage as their personal tax situation may well change over time as they may do other work during other days/school holidays.

By all means lobby the LA for after school care but please don't count on it for September. Dh does some work with various different LAs and he always complains about how slow their decision making process is. It takes them absolutely ages to sign off on anything, far longer than commercial companies. I just can't see that there is any way they would set something up in time for the start of the school year.

Are there any childminders that collect from your school, even if they are full at the moment? If there are, it is worth calling them regularly to check if anything has opened up. Most childminders have a 4 week notice period so won't know more than 4 weeks in advance if a place is going to open up. I get so many parents calling and asking if I will have a space in x months time and I always say no because I can't possibly know when my current children will be leaving. Some ask to go down on a waiting list and out of politeness I promise to let them know if a space opens up, but to be honest I don't actually make a note of their details because I know there will always be more enquiries. So it may be worth pestering them a bit.

12.50ph net for a nanny is not the going rate, you need to look into it again. Advertise more widely.

If you're outside London you should be able to get someone for 10ph net for a share, 5ph net for each parent, maybe 7-8ph in total, for both of your children it's cheaper than a childminder.

The rest of it you'll have to just 'suck up'. Small house? Get the nanny to take them out a lot. If you are become a sahp, you'd be at home with them anyway! Hassle of being an employer? It's not that bad and unfortunately for you, it's necessary.

Is it what you want? No. Is it perfect? No. But it's affordable Ofsted registered childcare, that means you can carry on working.

I think it is unfair that childcare provision by the LA differs so much from area to area. But the point is the situation at present is as it is. You could start up a campaign to have childcare at the school of your choice. But in the meantime you will have to make alternative arrangements.

lady nanies can only look after 2 famillies children at one time, if they did 3, then they would be classed as a cm and whole diff ball game

agree with leeds that nannies arent £12netph, and nwoc def shouldnt be and whatever you do pay agree gross

could they maybe go to a friends house every week, huge comittment for friends mum, but if they did one day a week with 2/3friends and maybe share a nanny with another parent or look for an older lady (or man) or wants to earn a bit of money and work 2/3 days

it is tricky, i would ring cm again and course you cant plan for something that may/might happen in 5 years time ie when your child is a baby, you dont know where you may bein location/jobs/schools

Yes I'd forgotten about the 2 families rule, which is annoying, because 2 families could easily mean 4 children of course.