What should / shouldnt a childminder do when the have mindees with them

[travellingtime]

So, using a childminer (not the same one) for the first time in a few years and need a sanity check on what's normal and what's not.
So, DD (pre-school) is with CM from 11.30 till end of day. DS, with her from 3.00 till end of day (6pm)
CM has dogs, so seemingly each day after school the walk the dogs - which sometimes involves going to the park too. By the time they get back its time for tea and then perhaps a bit of telly before we collect - all fine (at least it is now in the summer months, not sure how I will feel about them being dragged about in the cold and wet in november though!)
However what about things like CM getting a hair cut (at someone elses house, rather than salon) trips to town to run errands, and such like ?
I understand the argument that CM needs to do jobs etc but she doesnt have them all day every day so has the time to do these things without involving the child(ren)
Thoughts people?

Walk to park with dogs sounds fine although if the weather is horrid would make more sense to do indoor play and walk dogs later herself. Quick trip to shops is OK, if kids are involved correctly it can be educational for them.

Haircut absolutely not OK in my opinion. She should do that outside of working hours like the rest of us have to.

Perhaps things like haircuts, ironing etc should be done in her own time. However, I think going for a walk every day is good, summer or winter.

I wouldn't use a cm with dogs at all! And no to the haircuts or ironing in work time.

I think in balance with doing things for the children it's okay, it just depends on what the balance is like. Is it well balanced do you think? Some childminders are very child-focussed, whereas others are more mixed, it depends on what you want and if they provide it.

Haircuts, no. Everything else fine.

Walking dogs I'd be ok with.

Haircut not.

A trip into town to go to the shops, post office etc is if not every day.

Depends what the balance of other activities is though.

Ironing around small kids is a safety hazard in any case. She should not be doing that.
I would expect a childminder to be interacting with the children throughout the day, not ignoring them while she gets her own stuff done. I wouldn't expect it to be like a nursery inside a house, so obviously things like washing up need to get done and so on, but I would expect to see some educational value to how a pre school aged child is spending their day. With school aged kids I would be less bothered, they need to relax after a long day at school.

No issue with the dogs - i wouldn't have placed the children with her if i had an issue with that. But I;m not sure that should be part of their day every day iyswim...esp if its damp, dark and rainy.
I dont feel she is 'doing' much with them as in it feels like they are fitting in with her normal day.
She is a new childminder and this is quite a new arrangement. However, with previous arrangemetns I have bitten my tongue about various things i wasnt happy with and later on wished i'd flagged it to them.
At the moment I'm thinking lets give it a few weeks for them/us to get into a routine and then request a review meeting where she and I can both have the chance to air anything we are not totally happy about.

Question is do you want a homely atmosphere or a nursery one?

Walking the dogs - brilliant. Every child probably needs more doily excercise than they get on a school day. Even in the rain they won't dissolve.

Hairdressers, shops, bank, dentist other stuff also fine by me. I'm assuming the CM would do what I would and involve a child in things - " get me one box of weetabix from the shelf..... Which biscuit shall we choose for our drink when we get in ....pay the lady .....etc" all. " learning" for preschool kids.

Ironing maybe not ? But washing with child helping - fine.

And if a CM took her to the dentist ( whilst CM being seen ) and wasn't nervous I might give her a huge hug as I hate dentists and not passing that on was hard.

If you want a more "educational" environment send them to nursery. Been out and about doing things, chatting to people etc might be what you really want.

My youngest knew so many people locally that taking her to the shops was a long round of " hello lellys friend" (lelly =her name for CM) and them chatting to her. That was really nice.

DD is nearly 15 and now goes to see "lelly" for a cup of tea and a chat still every few weeks of her own volition.

"I would expect a childminder to be interacting with the children throughout the day"

Seriously? All day, every day? Do all parents interact with and educate their preschool children all day every day, and not get any jobs done?

I think you are being unrealistic. If the CM doesn't leave the iron on in the same room as the children and then leave to answer the phone etc I don't see what the problem is. I used to do the ironing during the day when DD was small. Perhaps I am a bad mother.

Walking the dog fine unless weather is awful then I wouldn't be happy with it.
Jobs around the house while children play, washing, cleaning kitchen or bathroom etc fine as long as she doesn't do jobs the whole time she has children there. But getting a hair cut or going into town to do jobs no way! And definitely not ironing! She's getting paid to look after other peoples children, she should do her job right!

No, not non stop all day, that isn't what I meant. I mean they should give some thought to the days activities and what the kids will be doing, and how they will be involved in things. They are supposed to be following early years curriculum after all. Kids helping to prepare lunch and clear away afterwards is good for them. Kids going into town on the bus is a good experience for them. Doing a supermarket shop can be good if they all have their little tasks to do.
I can iron on the other side of a stairgate whilst supervising my toddler but the difference is that I am not being paid to do that. If you are paying for childcare you should expect them to do stuff with your child.

I don't think the OP mentions ironing does it? Apologies if incorrect.

I run errands with my mindees. Shopping / bank etc. I wouldn't have my hair done though. Prefer peace and quiet for that.

Walking the dog fine.

Be careful of falling into the trap of thinking well I pay her so she should be doing x, y and z. CM is extremely invasive. And the impact in terms of extra housework should not be under estimated. Nor should the additional hours put in planning etc. I reserve the right to keep on top of things during the day rather than it eating into my evening. Plus parents might complain if my house was a total shit tip!

Please don't begrudge your CM hoovering/ cleaning up the mess your DC has made. General household duties can be done quite naturally around small children. Without detriment! Nursery's and pre schools do this whilst the kids are there. Not all have cleaners.

Re the dog walking if you don't like it speak to her, if she wants to continue you can always find another who is more to your requirements or give up work and care for your own children.

Dizzy - Why not going in to town?
Great experience for kids lots to do and see or the opportunity for a nap. Chance to grab something to eat, go to a park or go on the bus/ tram/ train. One of my parents said she chooses a CM so their DC have this normal experience as if they were at home with them.
She is a level 6 Early Years practitioner!

Im not sure where the ironing question came from. I didnt put that in my original post
Re dogs, as ive said, not an issue , as long as other stuff is happening too.
Also wouldnt have a problem with general tidyign / cleaning.
My DD is at school in the mornings is therefore getting a tick in th box if you like for structured educational activities - but if the afternoon is spent accompanying CM on doing her errands (when she has ample time to do them with out the children) without any other activities - ie reading/doign puzzles/games/role play etc, then I would say she is falling a little short.
When I am at home with the children I try to strike a balance between getting jobs done that need to be done and other activities more centreed around the children - i think a CM should be doing the same and I dont think that is particuarly unreasonable.

The CM still has to provide the EYFS, even if your DD is at morning pre-school. Why not ask her what kind of activities they do in the afternoon?

Hairdresser I'd be fine with as long as it didn't take the piss tbh. If it's once every 6 weeks, at somebody's house, as long as there is something to keep the kids occupied then it's relatively normal. If it's every 2/3 weeks and time consuming it definitely needs to be brought up.

I agree with Theas RE the dogs, it is good, though I would have reservations about really horrid days, does she have a plan in place for days where it's horrid outside? How often does dog walking take them to something that they can get lost in, like the park or a lareg open space to play around in?

kat What about child-led play? And leaving kids to play by themselves? OPs children are old enough to play their own games together, and that kind of thing is very important too. My charges can spend hours running their own games in the garden and house, I leave them to it, you have to allow for autonomous play as well as running activities and in a home-care situation they also need to factor in living as a member of the family.

lost in meaning lost in their imaginations and play, not actually getting lost

The walk is absolutely fine, even in the cold - at least you know it will happen so you can wrap your kids up warm.

I have no problem with my CM doing housework while the kids are around, especially once they are a little older and can happily amuse themselves for fifteen minutes while she loads the dishwasher etc. I also don't have a problem with them going to the shops, and even the bank - if they really need to go, they really need to go, and it's not like they can nip out on their lunch break, is it? Occasionally my DD will end up being the only mindee at the CM's on a day during school holidays. CM also has three older children herself, so DD basically just gets treated as 4th child and has ended up at the dentists when the whole family needed check ups.

Hairdressers... That I don't know, I think I would be less happy about that as it's not so much of an emergency in my books as dentist, doctor or bank could easily be. Most people work f/t and have to juggle a hair appt at the weekends, I don't really see how it should be that different from someone doing a job like CM'ing.

One thing that struck me is that your younger DC starts at 11.30. Mine does that occasionally but it does mean that the CM has probably missed out on the chance to take her to a playgroup, as most seem to be in the morning. That can't help too much with a routine that involves doing fun things. If your DC is anything like mine, she turns up about 12, eats some lunch, has a story or a bit of telly to calm down, sleeps until at least 2 if not later, and then it's time for the school run. If it is similar, there's not much opportunity there for your CM to fit in anything much else.

Its a bit hard for them to do child led play while they have to sit in someone else's house (which might not have been childproofed) watching her get her hair done! I am all for childminders letting kids play by themselves some of the time, I just think getting your hair done in your working day is taking the piss. I imagine Ofsted would agree.

dizzy In my previous job I spent nearly all of my time trying to find errands to run. My charge loved walking and loved being in the town centre. There is so much to do in town. Going into shops, browsing (teaching them how to behave in shops), paying the staff (money and numeracy), people watching (learning about the world, behaviours), crossing roads (personal safety), going to the library, watching the swans from the bridge, eating lunch on the bench, going to the pet shop to see the small animals, getting to know the community, etc.

By 18 months my charge would be able to direct you home from anywhere along the main road in town. By 2 she could be anywhere within a 2 mile radius of her house and would know her way back and would lead you there if asked. The amount of times I'd try to 'trick' her by taking her to places we hadn't been to before or often and she'd know exactly where she was was astounding.

I appreciate there isnt lots of time between pick up at 11.30 and pick up at 3, once theyve had lunch etc. BUt she doesnt nap in the day, so there is a chance for an hours or so worth of 'something' as I tend to do on my days at home.
As i mention prevoiusly they are only there 3 days a week and not all day, so CM has time to do other jobs during the week if necessary (like haircut!)
I think I am just a bit concerned, as i posted earlier that she is just having the children fit around her activities rather than the other way round.
Again, as I mentioned, my plan is to let things ride for a few weeks (perhaps till half term ) and then sschedule a review meeting if I still feel its necessary.
One other thing, which might open a whole new can or worms...CM has an adult male relative living with her, who she advised was out of the house 7-7 each day and woudl therefore not ever see the children. Seems that he is there from time to time - not that this is an issue in iteslf but I would have liked to have known this and had the chance to meet him from the off.

I wouldn't be happy if she'd told me the other person was going to be out f the house and then they are there regularly. Not sure ofsted would be? Not sure.

I wouldn't be happy with the haircut stuff. She's working - I can't get my haircut when working and I don't take my toddler to mine as she'll be bored.

A walk would be fine.

I would tackle your issues sooner rather than later as I'd rather deal with them before they became 'the ways things are done'.

Hmm... Yes, if she has other days off then I think I would expect that most errands would be done when the children aren't with her. Are they her only mindees? A trip into town is an activity in and of itself, but not one I'd expect to be done all the time.

The relative - do you think it is important that he is male? Part of choosing a CM is knowing that other people will be in their house. My CM had her mum living with her for several months at one point and we never formally met her. How much is this relative around? Is that he is popping in and out, or is he involved at all with the children? I can't remember off the top of my head but I have a vague idea that other adults who will be around the house regularly have to be CRB checked too? (Though I could be completely making that one up!)

Definitely ask what EYFS stuff she's doing, didn't even think about that but she does need to abide by that.

kat Being at somebody elses house would be an opportunity for autonomous play, not child-led play, assuming that the house had toys and/or other ways for the kids to occupy themselves. A good CM who did this very occasionally wouldn't bother me. As I said, if they were having their hair done every few weeks or if it was a time consuming process, it'd grate on me, but occasionally having a quick haircut, no more than an hour of the day maybe? Not really an issue. I wasn't referring to the haircut anyway, I was referring to "I mean they should give some thought to the days activities and what the kids will be doing, and how they will be involved in things" You can only do so much planning. If my charges are busy in their tent playing and have been all morning, I'm not going to change their play to fit the plans for play I made for them.

However, in relation to everything else, for the OP it is part of a wider issue, which needs to be discussed as it sounds as though the balance is completely lacking in her situation.

OP the ale relative is a huge issue. If he's supposed to be out of the house during her working hours, this indicates to me that Ofsted may not know he is there.

How long have the children been going OP? It doesn't sound like very long?