Is this just settling-in issues with new nanny or should I be more concerned?

[missrose]

This my third week with a nanny share. The job involves two babies and my toddler(at nursery most if the time), three days a week.

The nanny we employed has done lots of childminding in holidays and babysitting in evenings and has two teenage children. Her references were excellent so we felt she had lots of experience and really loved working with children.

These are the issues we have had so far. DH thinks I'm over-reacting, the DC are not the best sleepers and I'm back at work so I'm pretty stressed and don't know if I'm coming or going.

We gave her an idea of the kids' routines which were completely ignored in the first, settling in, week. My dc2 was given two naps in the morning, none in the afternoon. The other baby has food issues and has to be fed regularly and on time; the nanny took her out to visit her friend and came back 30 mins late with no explanation or acknowledgement.

So, we spent an hour going through the schedule with her, which groups would fit around their feeds, naps, etc and anything else that we thought would be useful. She has more or less tried to keep to this as far as we know, although she didn't go to the group we'd discussed this morning but to a cafe.

My dc2 has been crying non-stop as far as I can gather. DC1 is at nursery most of the time but has not been co-operating with the nanny when she is at home.The other baby is a few months younger and has taken to it much better.

Yesterday when I got home from work I took my crying baby from the nanny asked her how it had been. She shrugged, turned her back to me and said 'fine.' I had to ask again and and coax the info out of her.

She has also said of dc2 that she is needy, angry and frustrated. I think she is 13 month old baby who is struggling with being apart from her family for 10 hours a day.

She has said dc1 has been shouting at her and she had to tell her off.

I got to work and started crying, not know what I would come home to. I completely understand how hard it is looking after 2/3 children but that little flash of irritation from her yesterday has worried me about how she will behave with the kids if she gets stressed.

Is this just teething problems and everything will calm down? Or would you be worried?

How long has she been coming for? Has she ever actually been a full time Nanny?
The routine thing seems to have been sorted by the sounds of things. Does she have to go to the groups you've suggested? Seems a bit prescriptive.
I would have thought that the crying and testing behaviour were fairly normal if this is the first time they've been left. Also would have thought that a flash of frustration, under questioning, at the end of a long trying day was fairly normal.
Have you discussed how would would want these behaviours dealt with?
At the end of the day though either you trust her or you don't. I would suggest a chat about how concerned you are about the crying etc. and see how she responds.

Do you text each other during the day? Maybe she could text/email picture of them at sone point in the day.
handover time children are going to be tricky at first. They will want your immediate attention, so not best time to chat with nanny.

Concentrate on getting communication between you and nanny to be such that if there is a problem nanny feels to tell you.

Tbh I think the mistake you've made is recruiting someone who isn't really a nanny for what is a quite difficult nanny role.

She's raised her own children, so of course she has great experience with those two specific children, children she loves. It's completely different looking after someone else's children, sticking to their routines, doing what they want etc. It's twice as hard doing it for two sets of children, with two different routines and two different sets of parents.

For a job with two young babies and a toddler I would go for someone, preferably, both qualified and experienced, if that wasn't affordable I'd look for someone either with a lot of nannying experience or with nanny training and a bit of experience.

Thanks all for your comments, definitely a lot to think about.

Smartiepants - she doesn't have to go to the groups - they were more suggestions if she wanted to get out of the house, easy to get to and at convenient times. Once the babies were settled we are happy for her to decide what she does and did tell her that. Neither of the families are even particularly routine-led, it was more guidelines with more emphasis on the younger baby because of her feeding issues (lactose intolerant and no weight gain).

Also, it wasn't heavy questioning, it was as much 'how are you' as it was 'how were the kids'. I'm still finding it hard to understand why that would irritate her and the following morning I did say to her that I was sorry if I'd upset her in some way.

Nannynick - I do ask if she could let me know how the babies are doing and I do get one or two texts a day, she's not especially forthcoming with info on how it's going. I do understand she has her hands full though so I try to wait until I hear from her.

Outraged - yes, I think you're right. With all the childminding experience she had it sounded relevant but with hindsight I think those children were older or it was never more than one baby at a time.

Our second choice had been a 25 yr old who had worked in nurseries for four years and was currently in a baby room, looking after 3 babies. We employed the nanny because she was older and had great references. Do you think the nursery worker would have worked better or would we have been in the same situation where there isn't any direct nanny experience?

At the moment I feel as if there is quite a big communication break down and we are only three weeks in. We are trying to be clear and try to have conversations about problems as they arise but she becomes quite mono-syllabic and difficult to talk to. It's not a comment ever on her abilities and it seems to be more that she doesn't like being given instruction.

To be honest, I think it's not just her experience which is the problem. It's her attitude. She doesn't offer information readily, or follow routines, despite being told why she needs to.
Also, someone with experience would realise that your DC1 is also having a hard time adjusting. My au pair didn't react well to my son at first, but she isn't experienced, but with coaxing and with me mediating between the two and setting clear boundaries, things improved. But your nanny doesn't sound great.
Sorry, I don't mean to make you worry when you're probably already uneasy. But intuitively, she doesn't sound right. She needs to volunteer that information, and when you ask, should respond properly. She's being paid, she's not doing you a favour.

And don't ever apologise to someone when you ask about your children. As a parent and an ex-childminder I think it's your right.

Sounds like a lot is to do with communication, so find something you are both happy with. Email perhaps.

You can dictate what happens in the day, or let her just get on with it. It is early days and it takes everyone time to adjust, time to settle into a routine.

Tackle key issues. If you are not that fussed about routine, then say so. However say you do want to know what they have done during the day - mileage record may show that if they drive anywhere, photos possibly if somewhere they can be taken.

Some days they may do very little, other days they may go out.
Given feeding issue, a log of feeds is not unreasonable. It is a bit of a pain but it is what a maternity nanny would do and all nannies would do it if necessary to track a babies milk intake. Can be hard to quantify solid intake (it does tend to get everywhere) but an idea of the amount could be logged.

I think it would depend on the nursery nurses personality. On paper you'd be in the same situation i.e. employing a first time nanny. Working in a nursery she would have had the experience of dealing with other people's children and doing a detailed handover/record keeping. She wouldn't have experience of taking sole responsibility for doing those things though. She may be one of those people who takes to nannying really well, she may not be.

I really would look for an experienced nanny. Two babies and a toddler is hard. Are we talking 3 under 3?

I think sometimes people forget that nannies are more than glorified babysitters!!

Possibly your nanny had a bad day - it is hard looking after 3 who are 3 and under - even more so if a share as don't forget that baby has 2 parents at their beck and call and now 33% iyswim

Also your nanny doesn't sound like a nanny who has had lots of baby exp - and babysitting and childminding in holidays (for maybe older kids) is again very diff from 3 under 3

Only you know if the fit is right - but once trust and communication has broken down then it's hard to get it back and yes it's the start of a job so she's prob trying to find her feet etc - almost a month in things should be better

Two babies who are not twins and a pre school child is hard work. Two sets of employers can be difficult too. Plus one baby has health needs.
I only say this because yes from what you have said the nanny doesn't sound very happy. And I agree with a previous poster calling a baby "needy" is not nice. Your baby must also find it hard sharing time with another baby and not having his needs put first.
Please don't be offended but are you paying the correct rate ie between the two families slightly higher than the average hourly rate. I ask this because I see so many jobs advertised for less than minimum wage let alone average nanny rates. You say your second choice was someone who works in a nursery taking their first nanny job and as your nanny doesn't sound a professional nanny, I wonder if low pay could be a factor.
A nanny share of such young children needs an experienced nanny IMO.

Your nanny has never been told what to do by anyone. Look at her experience. She's found herself in a job where she is monitored and its not in her nature to answer to anyone. Loving children or not, she's not adjusted to the switch.

Sounds like she is also struggling with the stress of 3 DC who are all at a routine stage.

Nursery nurse might be the better option and will be used to reporting everything, following routines strictly and dealing with bosses.

Childminding in holidays - what did that actually consist of doing? Was it ever with baby/1yr old twins?

Long time since her own children were babies, whilst things do come back quickly it can take some adjustment to having the ever demanding needs of babies to tend.

What do you want to happen? Is there any aspect of you not enjoying your own work, wanting to be with your children rather than working, that may be affecting judgement?

Once niggles are out of the way, do you see things working longterm with this nanny? Baby stage is hard on everyone and they do grow up, so what is an issue now may not be as much an issue in a few months time.

It is a nanny share, so how does the other family involve consider things to be going? Are you finding that you and the other family get on with each other, can openly discuss things, have a fair share in terms of resources used, costs?

The nanny not having been an employee for some time may well be causing some friction, as they are not used to doing as someone says. Great that you will let them do their own thing but they are your children not theirs so you can tell them how to look after your children. If you want them to follow a nap routine, then that should be followed, you are the boss.

Are you in a managerial position at work? Can you use your experience and training as a boss to manage your employee. Think of it as someone new at work, someone you have to micromanage for a while until they get the gist of things and can be let loose to do more on their own.

You do not want to have to micromanage a nanny, ideally they should be able to be left to get on with things from day 1. However everyone is an individual and if letting them do what they like is not working, then micromanage for a while and once routines established then give freedom.

I would be looking elsewhere TBH. To call a child needy, frustrated & angry within the first few weeks of settling-in really doesn't sound good almost as if she's decided she doesn't like LO. Any nanny or childminder will tell you it's very common for a child of this age to be extremely clingy/needy in the early weeks as they form a new bond and yes they may be unsettled & frustrated as nanny won't yet know her communication signals that are probably second nature to you.
I regularly look after 2 under 2 plus a 3 year old (childminder so all from different families) and yes it is hard work but any decent experienced childcare professional should be able to cope with the initial teething problems & would be looking to get them into a good workable routine that suits them & you.

I'll bet holiday childminding was having a few school-aged children to entertain and babysitting doesn't count as experience IMO as 90% of the time children are in bed plus she's had 10+ years to forget the realities of caring for a baby & unless she has twins has no experience of multiples. Her references may be glowing & I'm sure she's a lovely person who causes no threat to your children, but definitely not right for your family.

sorry cindy just read whole thread & realised I've repeated exactly what you said about past experience

Was she actually a registered cm?she doesn't sound great tbh

Hi, sorry for slow response, v busy at work and minimal sleep.

To answer your questions, she's being paid full whack for a nanny share. I have two daughters so I think it's v important that they see me working and being an equal to their dad even though I hate being apart from them. Also, I wouldn't get this sort of job again if I gave it up now. I do manage a small team and I have to employ casual staff every now and then. If someone had behaved towards me as the nanny did I would never book them in again as they let the whole team down.

The other family is brilliant and we've worked together really well to make sure everyone is happy, made compromises etc. I was worried the other mum would be unhappy that her dc wasn't getting enough attention but she said that the situation might be reversed in two weeks time and she would rather both babies were happy. The nanny sent her a text saying my dd wasn't letting her pay enough attention to her dd. The other mum said it made her feel uncomfortable, as if the nanny was trying to 'split' us up.

Dd1 is almost 3 and a half, v articulate, takes herself off to the loo, very good at playing on her own, loves babies and is not that difficult at all. The nanny has her for two hours at the end of the day, one hour of which is spent eating her tea. I have said that I'm happy with her being plonked in front of Peppa Pig for the other hour if need be.

The nanny does three days. I did specifically ask about her baby experience and had she looked after two and she did give examples of when this happened. We also spoke to two families she still works for, both had babies. She gave up another child-related job to take his one.

The thing that upsets me the most is calling DD2 angry. It seems to show a real lack of understanding of a baby's emotional needs and capabilities. She has also made a couple of comments now about how Dd2 doesn't like her. I hate to say it but my gut feeling on this is that she doesn't like my children, or me. She said she had to tell DD1 off for shouting yesterday, which seems a bit unnecessary. She fed them toast with different toppings for lunch and their tea yesterday, no veg, even though I had done a meal plan to make it easier for her so that she wouldn't have to think about the meals. I had also explained that DD2 gets terrible constipation with bread so I definitely wouldn't give it more than once a day, more normally once every two days. So, had about three hours sleep last night as DD2 strained away, trying to poo!

Sorry if this all seems a bit mean. Writing it down has made it apparent that she simply isn't following our instructions and doesn't seem to grasp why we are asking her to do things a certain way. I'm having a chat with the other family tomorrow as it now seems obvious this can't continue like this.

Thanks so much for all your comments, they have really helped clarify the situation for me. The fundamental mistake was employing someone who was not an experienced nanny. We interviewed her three times and she met the kids twice before we offered the job, can't believe we got it so wrong!

Yet she has cared for babies recently, though maybe they were just on bottle and really easy babies - some are, others are not.

It sounds like a bad fit, she is not gelling with you or the children, not following instructions.

Sorry to say this but she either bucks her ideas up or moves on. Tell her how you see things and say she has to do as you say.

It doesn't matter you got it wrong. It's what you now do about it - and sounds like you need to have a firm chat and warning. If happens again then notice - as in you can't just get rid of her and employ another nanny

She isn't listening to your needs or your child's needs

Could you afford a nanny on your own?

She sounds like a bad fit. Her attitude is not appropriate, nor are her comments about your children. She's continually going against your instruction. She doesn't sound capable of dealing with these ages and needs, and does not seem to have an understanding of child development at this age. As a nanny, I second the comment that you should never feel the need to apologize to her for asking about the children. That information should come willingly and in detail.

I would go with the nursery nurse if still available, honestly. Age is not a particular indicator of competence. That girl has recent experience with multiple babies and groups of children. She'll be used to the transition stage and giving detailed information, following a schedule and meal plan.

Are you still in probation period? If so could give notice. If not follow discipilinary procedure, such as written warning.

As others have said, the problem is this woman's attitude. She may be older but she comes across as immature. To turn her back on you when you ask a question is rude and making an issue when she could have said Mary seems to be finding it hard to have a change in her day to day life and I hope we can all work together to make it easier for her. Not to say Mary is rude, etc etc .

I did 3 different nanny shares and it is hard. Nanny is always in the middle if there are issues with the parents but this sounds all wrong.