Childminder discipline

[Duffdaddy]

My two and a half year old has been going to his childminder for 1 year. On the whole he gets on very well with her and the other children in the group . She is in my own opinion a supernanny like. When it comes to discipline. I over the last few weeks my boy has been refusing to take his shoes off when in the house. Therefor he remaines in the hallway untill he decides to take them off. This has on occasions been upto 45mins. I am thinking that this is excessive ?

Said much more eloquently than I did, Gold!

As a CM, its important to have rules for all of the DCs and that all of them know that they have to stick to those rules. Without an alternative solution what could she do?

Taking the shoes off forcefully would have resulted in a tantrum and is not a very professional way to deal with the issue (although as a mum its probably the approach I'd have taken after a few minutes of shouting at arguing with a toddler).

Keeping the shoes on wasn't an option - why should this particular child get away with not following the house rules? So the only thing left is to insist that until the child conforms he doesn't get to come into the playroom and join in with the other children. That he chose not to conform and to remain isolated is his own decision and hopefully one he will regret next time the situation arises, so that he will make a better choice next time.

Perhaps if the CM didn't explain why it was important to take shoes off then this is something she could have done to speed things along, but otherwise I support her course of action entirely.

Why are you not telling your son to take his shoes off when you him
leave at childminders !

Her methods aren't working if he has been refusing to do what she wants over the last few weeks. That is quite a long time to misunderstand the rules. She has also lost valuable time dealing with his refusal. She has made her life less easy.

Perhaps he just wants to stay in the hall anyway

IMHO, and my knowledge of three toddlers over 14 years(presumably all very badly brought up despite knowing to take their shoes off the minute they walk in the door) he would probably do what everyone else was doing the minute she stopped making an issue of it. Perhaps one day his parents could bring him in nice clean softish shoes (which didn't need removing) she wouldn't mention the subject of removal and hey presto he would probably ask to take them off and put them in the hall with everyone else's shoes. Or she could ask him to help take the little ones' shoes off. Or she could ask him to take her shoes off. Any number of ways you can distract small defiant children and get them on your side so they want to do what you tell them.

No swan. Its ano shoes in the house rule so that wouldn't work

I once has a similar experience right in the middle of my OFSTED inspection (of all the times ).

A child hurt another and I could tell by the set of her jaw and the look in her eye that she was going to be stubborn and not say sorry.

And yes, it became a battle of wills, probably lasting quite some time, although not the infinity it felt like!

I waited in trepidation for the inspector to comment on it when she went through the inspection at the end - had I done it right?

I had. The inspector said she was particularly impressed with how I'd handled it. According to her, I'd used just the right blend of patience, kindness and firmness to help the child do the right thing and apologise :)

Great differing views . I would like to clarify that I am a he , hence the daddy in my name( although I may be being picky!).the reason Longjane that I am not getting him to take his shoes off when he gets there . Is she picks him up. I do agree that I feel uncomfortable with some the language / tone used . If you did not know the full topic you may think it was a fight , mentally between 2 opposites instead of an adult and a young toddler. I am not nieve to not know that he is being stubborn . The question I am trying to answer is why? Swan I agree with alot of your views.

The more I read this the more I wonder why it's such a bad thing to just take the bloody shoes off?! I have done this with a couple of shoe-takingoff-refusers without it turning into a war or a wrestling match. I simply picked the child up and held them on one hip with one arm and chatted enthusiastically about all the lovely things we were about to do and whipped the shoes off with the other hand. No tantrums occurred, we all got on with our day and they all now take their shoes off without even being asked as they've got used to the routine.

Really, what is so bad about this? It wouldn't work for an older child obviously but unless the 2.5 year old is very big for their age surely the shoes can just be taken off without all this palaver. Yes, give them the opportunity to do it themselves but if they clearly won't just get on with it yourself!

FGS
The child should just do as he is told. And this should be reinforced by the parents. End of.

Stop looking for underlying reasons.

If it were my mindee they'd have just been removed. Can't be doing with 40 minute stand offs.

The child should absolutely not get their own way in this instance.

The question I am trying to answer is why?

I don't think the 'why' could be made any clearer.

The childminder is very likely to have tried other strategies to get him to want to cooperate and to find out if there was an underlying fear or desire that he was trying to communicate to her. If you don't think she did this, perhaps you should ask her why, as it's normal practice to do so within the restrictions of meeting the needs of other children in her care.

If all those other strategies have failed and it is clear to her that the child is determined to stand his ground she has three options.

Take the shoes off him herself. You don't want her to do that.

Allow him to come in with his shoes on. Moves the boundary he is feeling for, causing him confusion and totally undermines the authority that enables her to keep him safe and secure in her care and manage his behaviour appropriately. It also means that the problem is still there the next day.

Let him stay in the hall until he is ready to cooperate. You don't want her to do that.

So what do you want her to do?

Children of this age go head to head to try to get their own way. That's why it's called the terrible twos. They are trying out the boundaries and working out how the rules work. If they come across firm, fair, clear boundaries, they work them out quickly and become happy and secure within them.

Whether you like the terminology or not, your DS needed to learn that he can't win all of the battles. Maybe he stood his ground for longer because his previous experience was that he would win in the end. Only you know if that's the case.

If you don't want a childminder who will give your child firm, clear, age appropriate boundaries perhaps you need to look for a different one. In order for your DS to thrive in her setting he needs to know that you support her methods.

You pick you battles with two year olds. You look for other strategies to avoid conflict. However, conflict is sometimes unavoidable and, in the real world, the adult has to be in charge in order for the children to be safe.

Well said Gold!

Tell your son that he must take his shoes off when told to. Remind him that the CM is in charge, what she says goes. What will you do in a year when he doesn't fancy doing what his teacher says?

Ditto gold. I said said earlier there are 3 options

Cm does it
Child does it
Child doesn't and sits in hall till does

Op didn't want option 1 - child doesn't want option 2 so option 3 is the last resort

There is no option 4 of child does what he wants and enters with shoes as that's not the cm policy and all other kids have shoes off

Child has to learn to obey simple rules and again as I said earlier it's good manners to take shoes off

The children I look after on a perm babis do it without even being asked - coz they know that's what they do :)

Again thanks to all. He is taught manners , and he has been " obeying " the rules . Upto the last few weeks. This why I am trying to find a reason for the change his behaviour . I also think him refusing to take clothes or shoes is hardly going to make him into a troublesome child whe he starts school!

I am trying to find a reason for the change his behaviour.

He is two.

I also think him refusing to take clothes or shoes is hardly going to make him into a troublesome child whe he starts school!

That depends on how the adults around him respond to it.

Oh FFS. Let it go.

He's two. He's pushing his luck. Cm is more consistent than you and will get faster results because of it. End. Of.

Nicknaks, thank you for your elequent use of language ! Your presumption that I am not consistent , is a presumption which is incorrect. But never the less thank you for the contribution .

With children this age, I avoid battles of will. I think it is important to let them "save face", so I don't force them into situations where they stage a protest and then have to bow to authority, as I think it accomplishes nothing in the long term.

I would just take the shoes off myself while distracting the child. There is no reason for any kind of struggle and I agree with LingDiLong. The child might protest briefly, but will recover quickly.

OP, what is it you want?

You've described an incident involving your toddler and a childminder that you didn't feel was right in some way.

A good number of experienced Early Years practitioners have come on the thread and explained to you that your child's behaviour is perfectly normal for his age and that it is entirely appropriate for the childminder to either wait for him to cooperate or remove his shoes herself.

You refuse to say whether you've suggested other approaches to the childminder or asked what else she tried first so I'm not sure there's much anyone else can say to help you.

Is there more to this?

Is there more to this?
Goldmandra, I have not asked anymore since your last entry. Thanks.

You're very welcome