Nanny kitty

[BrandyAlexander]

Hi everyone, I just want to run something by you to get a few opinions. Our nanny has a kitty that we usually put in about £100 at the beginning of the month. She's been with us for a few years, and the system has always been that she she has an expenses book and puts the receipts etc with the book. Sometimes I look at them, mostly I don't. All the dcs activities etc are paid for by me, so the kitty is for any extras. She has always put little "extras" through the kitty, e.g. she goes to pick up stuff at the supermarket, she might put in her newspapers, a snack or treat for herself. I have never said anything as that is absolutely fine with me.

Yesterday, I had reason to look at the receipts and noticed that there are a lot more extras being put through the kitty. Not just her newspaper, but some more expensive treats for herself, and sanitary pads. Out of the last £100 I put in, about £20 of it went this way.

I am somewhat irritated but as she is our much treasured nanny, I was going to remind her to make sure she uses the kitty for work related stuff rather than personal expenses.

As I said, just wanted to get others opinions. Am i right/wrong to be irritated? Is what she's doing normal? Has anyone else come across this scenario. Thanks!

That is taking the piss and I'd be fuming tbh although just check she didn't just buy the items with stuff for you and then put 'her money' in to cover her bits iyswim? Definitely say something.

are you sure that she's put the whole lot down as expenses, not just that she's expensed some things on the same receipts as her personal items? if she is claiming from you, then she's taking the P*ss almightily.
On the flip side, someone did say something to me the other day that made me really question the way I handle nanny expenses (identical to you) - she told me that her nanny had said how very badly treated XXX's nanny was. Really? but she's been with them years, how bad can it be, I asked. "Oh, well she's made to keep receipts and note down every single expense she incurs, it's just such a lack of trust" was the answer. Not only did friend think that was an appalling way to treat an experienced nanny, but so did her nanny (god only knows what kind of system they run). So sorry for the derailment - but this is a normal way to handle nanny expenses isn't it?

Thank you both. I started off fuming last night but I am calm today. Sometimes emotions get the better of me so I just wanted to check whether others would be happy for these expenses to go through the kitty or was I being a tightwad.

Yes, she has definitely taken the money out of the kitty as the full cost of the receipt is what is in the book. In the past, she would adjust the receipt, but none of the receipts I looked at yesterday have been adjusted.

I understand that it is normal to have this system, it was discussed at interview and if she didn't like it, she need not have accepted the job. She had also had this system with previous jobs. In my job, I have to submit expense receipts for everything and so to me, it is normal so I don't think anything of it.

I think it's very normal! My boss doesn't care, I do it to cover my back if she did ever turn around a say where did all the money go (which she never would but she would be fair to do so as it is her money). And also to not down dates kitty went into my bank I case HMRC ever things I'm being paid more.

Saying that my MB would think the same as you! I work 7-7:15 I don't have time to grab bits after work so if I think it when I'm doing their food shopping running errands I will grab anything I need too. It's all on the one receipt but I add up work stuff then take that off kitty.... Really should cross off my stuff and write new total incase she ever does check and things I'm stealing hundreds of pounds from her each month :/

I think a reminder that kitty is only for things for DC is needed otherwise it might just get worse.

If she is using your money to buy her stuff she is taking the piss. Are you sure she is though? If I do a shop I put my stuff and the families through together (so all on the same receipt). I only charge them for their stuff though, not mine. If it's a small amount I might charge them for all the shopping, but then when we stop for snack, pay for that myself instead of charging them. Swings and roundabouts. Luckily they trust me.

'So sorry for the derailment - but this is a normal way to handle nanny expenses isn't it?'

No, I don't think so. Keeping receipts for big spends is normal, but I don't know any nanny who is expected to note down every penny they spend. Your friend is right, it is about trust. If you don't trust them not to steal from you, you almost certainly shouldn't trust them with your children!

where do you draw the line on large vs minor spends though? like nannyme1 says, employers are obliged to fill in HMRC declarations on expenditure which are auditable. If there isn't reasonable record keeping, not just on "big spends" (what is a big spend anyway?) then it's the employer who's at risk of getting a rap on the knuckles / fine / extra tax. However much I trust my nanny (with my children, my house, my car, my keys etc), HMRC don't trust me an inch. I get receipts for cinema tickets / entry fees / odd bits of shopping just as much as for birthday presents or dry cleaning collected & don't see why that's an indication I don't trust her.

All the small things add up though don't they. I get given a few hundred pound kitty every few weeks (I buy everything for house hold and children) and go through it fast. A few bits here and there easily add up to over £50 in a week which I consider a large amount.

Nannies are employees, like any other employee. I have to provide a receipt for every item I buy if I want my employer to pay for it. It's a tax issue, not a trust issue.

If your nanny is regularly buying herself 'treats' with your money over and above what you pay her, then those are in effect benefits in kind aren't they?

'where do you draw the line on large vs minor spends though?'

Generally, a big spend has a receipt e.g. school shoes, shop in Tesco, theatre tickets, gym classes etc. Small spends generally don't e.g. playgroup fee, drink from a vending machine, snack from a corner shop, couple of bananas from the greengrocer etc.

the playgroup biscuit tax. I'd forgotten all about those little 50p's.

I agree with Leopoldina. If I take a taxi costing £4 and want to get it refunded at work, I have to show the expense receipt at work. That £4 will be scrutinised as much as the £4,000 expense I might put through.

My nanny was financially abused by previous employers. If there is a lack of trust, I would say that it is lack of trust in me from her based on her past experiences. There are no swings and roundabouts with her and the kitty isn't allowed to go anywhere near zero else she gets very anxoius. There isn't a penny that she would spend on the kids but that's fine with me, I understand.

I trust her with my kids, house, keys etc. I wouldn't dream of accusing her of stealing, I just think its about boundaries and I just need to remind her of them. I didn't want to go rushing in and saying something and feeling a right idiot afterwards because I wasn't being fair.

Well I don't think you should stop a receipts system that everyone else in any job has to do... Because it shows a lack of trust!

I'll just tell the accounts department at my work that they're insulting me shall I?

I'm afraid that alot of people do a bit of 'creative accounting' unless monitored. It's a shame but that's the way it is which is why every other industry has strict accounting methods. It doesn't reflect on whether the employee is good at their job or not, it's to have completely transparent dealings which protect employee and employer.

(I say this as someone who has been really lax in their accounting and has realised that the nanny is indeed skimming a bit off here and there. However because I didn't stick to a system of accounting, so can't do anything about it. I have to change the system to make it less tempting)

'A few bits here and there easily add up to over £50 in a week which I consider a large amount.'

A few is like 3,4,5 things. To come to £50, that's £10 each, which is a 'big spend'.

A few things for us would be a maximum of £10 a week, probably less(e.g. playgroup £1.50, snack 45p, bus fare £1.20, another snack 60p and a packet of wipes £1). Nowhere near £50 a week on 'a few bits'!

But those are things for the children Outraged. Not snacks, treats, newspapers, sanitary protection (!) for the nanny herself.

My employer doesn't buy me Starbucks, only crappy machine coffee. If a nanny buys a Starbucks, she should pay for it out of her own money, not the kitty.

And everywhere will give you a receipt if you ask.

OddFodd, I hadn't thought of the BIK point!

You need to be really careful, novice. I get receipts for everything, because I'm paranoid about being swooped on by HMRC.

50p tax, not round my way, more like £2.50 toddler group tax.

Unless you have a child who is an age where they needed a sanitary pad, then that expense is not acceptable.

Personally I have never kept receipts for expenses as many things simply do not have one. Shopping trips would have a receipt if my boss wanted it, as would some larger outings.

What ever system you have, your system has found that trust is being abused. Maybe it is a one off, or maybe it has been going on a while. Many nannies I feel are trustworthy and I suspect some overspend kitty money using their own money to supplement it, and other weeks/months may underspend and thus it evens out over time.

What to do... Mention it. Your system requires receipts so nanny must be aware that you will check from time to time, so you can ask directly why that purchase has been put through. Then you can remind them that expenses are fine but they must be expenses incurred through their job, not personal things.

As a nanny-I've seen a few ways of handling the way the kitty is given/used. Currently I do similar to a lot of nannies, I note down each day what I spend, in the margin of the nanny diary, then do a weekly total in the weekend bit. At some point each week there will be some money laid on the nanny diary, I always note how much. Then on each Friday leave a note 'nanny owed £12' or '£7 remains', something like that.

As to the op- as others have said, are you sure it is actually coming out of the kitty? I'll often grab my own things, my lunch or bread or something I can't get afterword. It's all on the same receipt but I do cross out my stuff and write a new total on.

I keep a tally in the diary mainly for me, boss would be happy with a weekly total but I lose track of what I spend. 50p here for parking, a bus fare on my oyster, a couple of local shops that don't give receipts. It all adds up, and as I just put the float in my own money for ease, I find I'm paying for things that should be from the kitty.

But then I've never ever bought anything for myself from the float, and my boss knows that. If out, I'll buy my own lunch. Don't drink tea or coffee! Every penny of the kitty goes on the Kids or household stuff.

'But those are things for the children Outraged.

I know

'And everywhere will give you a receipt if you ask'

@ asking the old lady who takes the money at playgroup for a receipt! Or the vending machine....

I normally have a credit card for work - I will use it for everything I can - petrol - lunch - school shoes - swimming - entrance to places shopping etc

Also handy if employers want dry cleaning /car tyres etc done

Obv I keep all receipts (tho tbh most employers rarely look at them - they trust me) and when statement comes in employers can see where money has gone

Any expenses like drinks or snacks entrance fees etc during the working day will be paid by employer

I also have a small cash kitty which I just ask to be topped up every now and again - as leeds said you can get a receipt for everything - £1.50 toddlers - 50p ice cream

And no I don't write down everything for the cash kitty as again comes to trust

Yes I go shopping for my stuff ESP if working long hours but I would never put on employers card and then reimburse - that makes complications tbh

Maybe nanny suddenly got AF and rushed out to buy some pads but she should have put the £2/3 in kitty herself

Can't get a receipt for small stuff - not can - grrrrr

Some weeks I used to spend £5/7 in parking as £1.70 for 2hrs and 2 swim classes after each would be over an hour with getting dressed etc

In the summer with 3dc ice creams weekly could be £3/5 - tho tbh I would normally choose mini milk or mr men - kids don't need these super super lollies with sweets etc at bottom which cost £2/3 each !!!!

I think you should ask the playgroup lady, Outraged, see what she says :o

I'm sure there's a cap on petty cash with no receipts as far as HMRC is concerned.

I rarely check the expenses, but she said the kitty needed topping up, a week earlier than usual so I was looking to see if she had paid the bin cleaners for me. When I said she was paying for treats for herself, I meant she's fallen off the diet she's been on in a major way, and there are a couple of cartons of chocolate and those v big bars of chocolates. Also things like 16 cans of coke (8 pack bogof). I think she's embarrassed about it hence she hasn't put them on the shopping list.

Anyway I have had the conversation. why does dh dump these things on me. All I said was, I was topping up the kitty and noticed that some of her personal stuff had got mixed up with other things, not a problem as I know it was a mistake but just be careful not to mix up in the future. She got very flustered, mentioned the sanitary pads and offered to pay it back and I said no as not a problem at all. I then moved the conversation on to something else.

On a question of trust, i offer a slightly different perspective. When dh and I were choosing who should be guardians of the dcs if something happened to both of us, our lawyer gave us some guidance. Firstly, choose someone who would love the kids and look after them well. Plenty of candidates. Then narrowed it down to who would have the same values as us, that filtered down a couple of people. Then finally, who would we trust that the dcs inheritance would be left totally in tact and used solely for them. That last test narrowed it down very quickly. Bottom line was there were plenty of people we would entrust the physical and mental well being of our dcs. There were less people we could trust with their financial well being. The two situations are different but I guess what i am trying to say is asking my nanny to keep an expenses book doesn't mean I don't trust her with the physical and mental well being of my dcs.

Well done for tackling and sounds like nanny knew what she had done and hopefully reliesed it's something she can't do

Maybe buy her some diet coke etc - I drink a lot of it and would buy it within the weekly shopping / but then again I would mention that at the beginning of the job - I don't drink tons - maybe a can for lunch etc

To me stealing from someone is not compatible with loving and looking after them. It's also not compatible with 'having the same values' as me, because I don't steal! For me, the couples who only got eliminated in round three would have been voted out straight away. In the same way, a nanny I didn't trust with £5 a week of kitty money wouldn't be someone I'd employ to care for my DC.