Pregnant nanny

[Ihatenicknames]

Our nanny has just told me that she is pregnant. She wants to come back to work after maternity leave of around 6 months. This is not my preference as I think it will cause too much disruption for my girls. They are still very young and just as they have got used to a new person they will have to cope with another change. I know that there is nothing I can do legally to prevent her returning to work but I was thinking of talking to her and trying to show her that her choices are not in the girls' best interests. Has anyone else dealt with this issue before? Any advice? Thanks

Wow! I understand it's tough, you have to do risk assessments and give time off for AN appts, you need a replacement nanny, you have to adapt to this new person as do your DC and you have to administer SMP but seriously these are rights she has and you accepted upholding them when you became an employer.

You can't stop her taking any length of ML she chooses. You can stop her bringing her baby back which means she might leave but she won't tell you that until her ML is up anyway because she'll carry on accruing holiday and you may decide to, for example, make her redundant in that time which would put her in line for a redundancy payout, and why would she jump ship unless she finds another job to go to.

A change of 6 months won't be traumatic if your nanny keeps in touch during her ML and if you were being supportive and accommodating do she could come back earlier that would be one thing to have your cost little chat. Unfortunately your attitude is you want to stop her coming back and that's sailing close to constructive dismissal.

'As the nanny wants to come back to work with the baby then this is a change in employment terms'

Where did the OP say that Booh?

She said she wants to come back, not she wants to bring her baby with her.

Maybe she does, but the OP hasn't said either way. It's probably helpful if you don't jump to conclusions.

Is she coming back with the baby? Surely it's ok for her to come back otherwise but I would be less convinced if she was bringing her baby.

Xenia- words fail me! Absolutely horrendous attitude.

I was a nanny for a family with two boys when my DD was 6 mths old (though actually they did have an au-pair as well) but I think it can work out well, and is certainly an option in the circumstances.
I do sympathise though particularly about finding care for your girls whilst she's off (on mat leave)

Bringing the baby is a completely different issue and the op is well within her rights to refuse this. I don't think this is what she's talking about though.

Hang on I am utterly utterly consistent. I took 2 weeks of annual leave to have 5 babies in and worked until I went into labour. I practise what I preach.

I am also someone who has been very very good to nannies, paid and dealt with very pleasantly and nicely two nannies on maternity leave, let one come back with one baby and a year later another baby - she left when she had her third. Like most people who want to keep a good nanny or even a mediocre one you do what you can to work around them and I can tell you if there is anewish baby of the nanny in the house and her 18 month year old, your 2 or 3 year old and your 4 and 6 year old your own children no way get as much attention. We coudl tolerate that because we're nice and over 10 years you build up relationships with people and the older children were at school so I am certainly not one of the bad guys BUT I am in favour of removal of maternity rights for those working for small employers and maternity rights do not help women. They just ensure that women come second place to men. Women take ages off and men forge ahead, men get all the promotions and women become low paid domestic slaves only earning pin money because they had 12 months losing career progression. Maternity rights certainly enhanced ones are one reason many women in dual career couples do so badly and end up doing so much more domestic dross at home than men do.

Let us hope this nanny's husband will be giving up work in true non sexist fashion to look after the baby and she can get back to work full time without the child. Thus can feminism triumph and women get on.

With your scenario though Xenia surely you can see it might be a little weird for her to look after other people's children and not her own baby too ? She might prefer the more generous situation you were able to offer to nannies who worked for you, caring for your family ?

Xenia - you may be consistent, I'm not sure how useful your posts are considering your views are hardly representative of even vaguely acceptable norms.

How could you leave a two week old baby and describe that as a win for feminism?

Feminism's ideals were to make us equal to men (not the same). Maternity rights were brought in counter the fact that men are unable to have children, but to allow women to stay with their newborns when they needed to. Tiny babies need their mothers and no amount of money you earn you ever make up for leaving them at age.

It's not difficult - I've done it. You recruit a temporary replacement with a one month notice period on her job. The current nanny has to give you one month notice of return, there is no overlap, you are refunded by HMRC.

I'm a nanny. I have returned to work 3 days a week out of the home ( and 3 days at home on something else).

Out of those 3 days my children come to work with me 1 day, dh stays with them 1 day, and they attend nursery 1 day. None of that is sexist/ feminist issue.

It was beneficial to my employers that I took baby with me as I only took 10 weeks off both times. If I hadnt I would have taken 9 months. I was paid my full salary for 10 week maternity in exchange for returning as soon as I did. I could take my children with me every day but I choose not to. I work the equivalent of full time anyway over those 3 days as usually 6am- 9pm/ later. Then work approx another 25/30 hours from home as a consultant. I'm the furthest from lazy ( and neither is dh), and it would be wholly unfair for me to not receive any maternity rights.

Yes, yes, take away the maternity rights of anyone who works for a small employer, brilliant idea!

Then, when nannies become virtually extinct because they decide against it as a viable long-term career, come back and tell us how easy you find it to hire one so you can go back to work after the two weeks annual leave you take to have a baby.

My god Xenia why did you have children? You seem to want to work more than see them?

Anyway, OP you're confusing two issues here. You are an employer with legal obligations. That doesn't mean that you can skirt around the law because of the personal implications. It's the chance you take when you hire a nanny. Anything could happen to that nanny and you'd have to find another one. In this case it just happens to be that she is pregnant.

I have a nanny and wonder what I'd do if she fell pregnan. I would find it annoying having to get cover but ultimately I went on maternity leave and I'm sure it was a pain for my employer too.

It's not difficult to sort SMP if you use a payroll company.

^^ what Trunchbull said.

And Xenia - I am sorry but has it ever crossed your mind that not everyone wants to take 2 week annual leave with their babies?

As for the whole "it's so difficult to administer SMP" - please. This is the nanny's fault?

And have you all not received SMP from your employers?
I can't believe you are so happy to avail yourself of certain benefits when it suits you but then refuse to offer them to someone else just because they work for you.

It's fine to be concerned about finding temp cover but the way OP and Xenia have phrased their arguments is supremely selfish and self absorbed and quite upsetting to read, especially since you are both mothers - it's like the most awful female-on-female violence. Inequalities with men are the least of our worries with attitudes like this.

Assuming your children are bonded with the current nanny, I would view it a very positive that she wants to come back. You are lucky! She is committed to your family and that is very hard to come by in my experience. I would far rather have a temp nanny in for 6 months, knowing a committed, trusted and familiar nanny was coming back for the long term probably more engaged and pleased to work with your family than before as you've supported her. I would view the fact she wants to return to her role very positively if it were me/my family.

I share the shock/outrage of other posters regarding trying to persuade her to resign. That is just wrong. You knew when you employed a nanny that this could happen. It is something I gave a lot of thought to before choosing nanny as my childcare solution.

So Xenia, because your nanny only took a month off on maternity leave, this stopped her from losing out on "career progression" while a male forged ahead in her place? What a load of rubbish! Regardless of whether she took a year or a month off, she was still going to come back to wipe snotty noses and puree bananas. Not everyone sees climbing the career ladder as their ultimate goal and you should be glad that they don't. Otherwise, the world would be rather top-heavy with managers and consultants and directors and a little short on people who would actually keep the whole show on the road.

annh's last post is spot on. Lol at 'Regardless of whether she took a year or a month off, she was still going to come back to wipe snotty noses and puree bananas'

words fail me op - your attitude is disgusting. Do your dd's needs come above every other child's? what about the nanny's child? there's no regard there on your part is there. Can't imagine how you will possibly cope when pfb is one of 30 in a classroom

We have just made our nanny redundant after 7 years (done by the book with redundancy pay etc). She also went on maternity leave 2 years ago. It was not a hassle to do SMP - nanny payroll agency sorted all that.

Anyway, getting to the point, she was job hunting during her last couple of months with us and I was amazed by the number of people who did not want to give her any kind of employee rights, e.g wanting to pay cash in hand to avoid tax (so nanny has no payslips for mortgage purposes), not wanting to pay holiday or sick leave, wanting to be able to change her hours at will, asking her about her plans to have more children, etc. Many of these same women are absolutely people who will defend their own employment rights to the hilt, see sexism in any comment and would go mad if anyone asked about their plans to have more children in an interview. And that is not to exonerate the dads who are the same. Yet none of them see the hypocrisy.

I agree it is shocking.

Xenia
I think you hold fairly extreme views on career progression versus looking after your own children. I also think you are fairly aggressive in your posts. You seem to look at it from only one view point, which is yours and tbh seems to me to be career progression whatever the cost.

Quite frankly saying that extended maternity rights have done women a dis-service is ludicrous. Not every woman is hell bent on climbing the greasy career pole and for many thousands of women, extended maternity rights have been wonderful. It enables them to return to the job they had whilst giving them an opportunity to spend QUALITY time with their children. I suspect many women would end up leaving their jobs altogether and would as you put it end up working in dross jobs for pin money if maternity rights didn't exist. Exactly the Opposite to what you appear to support....

If you want to take 2 weeks off that's your call but to want to exempt small employers from the maternity legislation would mean that women wouldn't want to work for such employers and you'd therefore be limiting their career choices etc far more, which is again totally contradictory to what you appear to support.

MrsS"And have you all not received SMP from your employers?"
No I was never eligible and when I had the twins I was working for myself.

Countries where women have very long leave rights result in women 's careers goinig much worse than men's and women think taking a year off is not a problem. The result is they love career progression, lean out and their husbands assume the woman is the one to cook and clean so they get entrenched as domestic drudge.

There are absolutely vast numkbers of excellent people looking for work and plenty of nannies beyond child bearing age never mind the legions of wonderful Spaniards many male who are desperate for work. If we did remove maternity leave rights from employees of small employers which by the way no party proposes except I think UKIP so it not at all likely, then it would not be at all hard to find staff.

Anyway as i said above I have dealt with nannies on maternity leave and organised it fine and probably more than any other employer of nannies on mumsnet. However it is a massive massive hassle and takes hours and hours of time and evne if the state refunds the actually maternity pay guess who beatrs the agency fee to find the temporary nanny? Guess who deals with the childn totally put out of sorts because their 8 - 6 carer has suddenly disappeared from their life? The parents who are working full time with small children and gettnig no sleep and are utterly exhausted at the best of times. It is a totally unreasonable burden to put on full time working parents. But the state goes that to us in our over regulated interfering country.

If you find being an employer so inconvenient then there are other child care options such as nurseries, which would meet your children's needs for continuity and with less risk of causing upset to them and you. The extra nanny duties I.e cleaning and house keeping could easily be picked up by a separate person employed solely for these chores. I am a mum and have been a nanny in the past and although you have come across quite arrogant and uncaring towards the needs of your pregnant nanny, I do see to some extent where you are coming from regarding the aim for continuity for your children. Also if you are not going to fill the post of nanny and the role no longer exists I would assume you could look into redundancy for your nanny?

What if one of the children's key workers at the nursery gets pregnant and goes on ML what? And then has the cheek to want to come back to work?

Do they have nurseries where all the staff have been sterilised/are infertile? And then there is adoption leave......So a nursery staffed only by people who are too old to adopt/get pregnant could be the way forward? They might get ill though and want some time off sick.....Oh dear!

whatsleep, most of us find what compromise works best for us as working parents, whether we are male or female. Nannies are great if you have 3 children under 4 and work full time and then when we had the twins it was good to have a nanny for the twins who could pick up the older 3 from school and cook dinner for 5 etc. It worked out fine. I always pleased for the person when they had a baby but yes it very very tough indeed on parents if you are up every night with crying children, working all day and then doing your housework after 6pm whilst minding 3 babies whilst also having nanny tax, nanny SMP, acres of forms to complete etc etc and all because you are legally compliant and an excellent employer. There are plenty out there who don't comply and they tend then to have much less admin, evade tax and have none of this to cope with. Then for HMRC to do two separate investigations into the nanny SMP - about 13 years apart for the 2 different nannies seemed so over the top and unfair.

We bent over backwards for nannies so it is not surprising people loved us and the first stayed 10 years. I am not someone who sacked someone because she got pregnant but the bottom line truth is that it is a massive hassle. Why can't the state say the nanny is responsible for the form filling, claims the SMP only from the state, not the employer, relieves the working parents of any form filling at all instead of the 2013 rules which say every single time you pay her even for a night baby sitting you now have to report to HMRC rather than once a quarter which it has been which is bad enough. It just gets worse and worse - so much for the Tories' supposed attempt to make there be less admin for people. Thy just make it worse.

Xenia - most people pay the £120 a year for nanny tax to organise all payroll info. If someone proxy parents, does overtime, on maternity leave they simply tell them and they organise. A bargain for £10 a
Month and no hassle.

But your missing the point, you EMPLOY a nanny which makes you an EMPLOYER, and with this comes all the responsibilities you seem unhappy to take on. Which is why in my opinion you would find a nursery more compatible, you would not be an employer and your children would bond with the team of staff rather than one individual (although like many others its beyond me as to why a change in carer would be so dramatic for your children) I don't really understand your point if you are up every night with crying children, working all day and then doing your housework after 6pm whilst minding 3 babies whilst also having nanny tax, nanny SMP, acres of forms to complete etc etc and all because you are legally compliant and an excellent employer if you have a nanny surely you wouldn't be doing all the house work and your 3 babies would be virtually ready for bed?

Your poor poor nanny. Are you sure you don't just want to avoid paying her maternity pay?