Advice from childminders please!

[frazzledrocks]

My nine month old baby spends three days a week with a childminder. This minder sticks to quite a strict routine, which involves most (if not all) of her charges going to sleep between roughly 9.30am - 11.30am. The childminder prepares lunch during this time.

In the afternoon, she often takes the children out to a park or for a walk, before collecting another child from school at 3.15.

I am very happy with the overall care she receives, but I have some concerns about this routine because my daughter doesn't follow it very well. Many people have commented to me that it is unusual for children to sleep in the morning rather than the afternoon (she has about an hour after lunch usually) so I feel it's going against her natural patterns.

We are having a real battle to get her to have more than about 45 minutes nap in the morning and she will even stay awake in the pram.

As a childminder, do you expect a 9 month old baby to fit in with your routines? Do you expect the parents to follow your routine on the days when they are at home with the baby? (mine wants us to find a routine we can all stick to, but one which fits into her day's structure).

I am feeling quite stressed about this because I feel that her need for strict routine and morning naps is affecting the quality of the time I am spending with my baby. I find myself getting stressed out if I can't get her to have a morning nap because I know that I will be faced with a grim-faced childminder every time I collect her the following week.

What do you think of this?

Oh complicated

My set up enables babies to sleep when ever they need to

However I understand that a C/Mer may need to set a routine to fit her needs

I do feel a 2 hr nap for all the children in the morning is a lot

I'm not sure that with such a fixed routine either you or she will be happy.

So I haven't helped much have I?

Firstly, I'm not a childminder but a nanny - just to make that clear.

Two hours in the morning I feel is not appropriate. I go with the long nap after lunch - this I find fits far better with routines from babies through to pre-school age. Young babies and older babies who still needed it would typically have additional morning nap, around 9.30am for 45mins or so.

Any childcare provider will expect there to be some give and take when it comes to fitting in with care of other children. However, parents views must be considered and individual children's needs must be accounted for whenever possible.

Therefore, if a parent has established a good sleep routine for their child, then the childcare provider should follow that routine if at all possible - though it may be necessary for the child to sleep in a buggy/pram, to fit with other children's needs - such as collections from nursery/pre-school, outings to park etc.

Will be interesting to read views of childminders, to see if a long morning nap is usual, or as I expect is unusual. Certainly nurseries I've been in have always had naptime after lunch. Also childminder I know do main naptime after lunch.

It's hard to critise a colleague - however I do feel as childminders we need to be baby led -& lunch doesn't take 2 hrs to prepare....at least my lunches don't

But if a baby needs an afternoon slep, then they should have one

I'd love all my mindees to sleep all morning!!

I always ask parents what their child's normal routine is, and will try to fit in with this as much as possible. However, I go out somewhere most mornings (soft play, music, toddler group) and ensure that parents know this. If a parent wants their baby to sleep in a cot at 10.00am every day, then they're not going to want me as their minder!

Invariably, a child's routine will change/adapt when not at home. If a parent was unhappy at something I did, I would want them to tell me. Also, if the child is doing something different with me, I will ask the parents if this is OK.

My mindees often have two different routines anyway, one at home and one with me!

To be honest (and I don't mind criticising another minder ), I think it is unacceptable for the childminder to expect you to fall in with her routine because it is so strict. I think it is unusual for children to have such a long morning nap, unless they were up at 5.00am. Your baby obviously doesn't need such a long sleep.

And I am also even more unhappy that it is stressing you out because you have to face a "grim-faced childminder" if you don't follow her orders!! It makes me think of school and not doing your homework on time.

Does she know how you feel about this?

Only got a quick minute............. Don't agree with the morning nap thing, very actually. All my mindees who need naps sleep after lunch (and you'll find most toddler groups etc, certainly where i am, are open in mornings and not afternoons, probably for that reason - most sleep in afternoon) and if the babies need that extra sleep in the morning, they can, I just don't put them in a cot for a formal nap - they fall asleep in car, pram etc instead!

Also, I feel very strongly about how you are feeling. You should NOT be worried about a 'grim-faced childminder', that's awful. I feel it's part of my job to reassure parents and I like to work WITH them, not tell them what to do!!!

Sorry it's rushed.

Sorry you're feeling like :( this and hope you can sort something out! :)

Gosh, talk to yr minder for goodness sake, it should be a partnership, with yr baby's needs paramount.

On a practical level, she really should be allowing the baby to sleep as/when needed, and sorry, but most childminders would be providing a bit more to do in the morning than a 2 hour nap (craft, toddler group, walks out, etc).

It is quite unusual for young children to sleep at this time... sounds like this routine suits the cm more than the kids.

Breadandroses used to be Ladbrokegrove

I always try to fit in with the parents/child routine and so far it has always worked well. The last child i looked after had his sleep in the morning from anyway from 10-12 for between 2-3 hours so would sometimes get lunch at 2. He liked to sleep at mine for about 2 hours but 3 at his. He would then normally go back to his house at 4 then sleep more and still sleep well in the evening.

am not a childminer but would liek to add that both of my DSs had naps in the morning - DS2 (2.7) still does occasionally so it's not that unusual for a baby to sleep then!
FWIW, I think the CM should try and be a bit more flexible

My younger mindees naps were always after lunch. Thats when the children wanted to sleep but if they were tired I let them sleep whatever the time. I agree with everyone elses posts (to save me writing a long message :0 .) Does she do anything else with the mindees like softplay, the library ,the park.?
You should feel able to talk to your childminder after all shes your child so you should have some input into what they do during the day.

I do know other childminders who put all children down for nap in the afternoon, but I don't agree with this.

As a childminder I ask parents to describe their existing routine which I try to follow as closely as I can.

Most of the children I've looked after have started with both a morning & afternoon nap and then dropped the morning nap as they got older, and finally dropping the afternoon nap later on. However some children have only needed an hour sleep, others 2 1/2 hours. I know a child who was still having a 2 hour afternoon nap in the summer holidays before starting reception class.

My point is, I would not impose a routine on someone else's child as each child's needs are different. I think the parent is the best judge of what is right for their own child.

The children i currently mind usually sleep after lunch. This is because we are out and about in the morning and this keeps them going. Obvioulsy if they are really tired then I will let them sleep, although sometimes this means a nap in the buggy. One of them falls asleep at least one day a week on the way back from collecting from nursery and is easil;y transferred to bed and has lunch when he wakes up - often around 2ish.
i would prefer they napped after lunch so i only had to do lunch once but obviously this is not possible so we go with the flow. I think that within reason a child should sleep when they are tired - and if allowed to most do anyway. i have never had any success in getting them to sleep if they are not. It is usually very apparent anyway and since they would only scream in protest It must be horrid for both the child and the childminder too

Hmmmm - mine were both morning nappers as babies. They would have a long nap in the morning and a shorter one in the afternoon before heading to just one nap after an early lunch at about age 1. However they did not follow this routine at nursery and they both coped. I think it is odd that the CM is trying to enforce a long morning nap - the obvious time for this is after lunch with those younger ones who need it also having a short one in the morning.

As your DD gets older she is not going to fit in with this pattern is she? My DD is 22 months - she sleeps 7.30 pm to 7 am (ish - give or take). At nursery she has lunch at 11.30 am and then goes down for a nap at 12 for somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. At home she will usually nap later - more like 1 pm and usually sleeps a bit longer than she would at nursery (ie nearer 2 than 1 hours) unless we are off in the car visiting someone. There is absolutely no way that she would go to bed at 9.30 am.

What are the ages of the other mindees?

I have three under fives that i mind.
One of them, age 22 months sleeps from approx 9.30 am till about 11.30, always in the buggy because she falls asleep whne i'm on the way home from school, or going to toddler group etc. However, she is often up as early as 2am some mornings, so by the time she gets to me she could have been up for 6 or 7 hours.
The younger baby, who is 14mnths, often has a twenty minute nap in the morning, but not all the time, however he will nap for a couple of hours in the afternoon, often in the buggy if we are out.
His brother, who is almost three often sleeps in the afternoon, especially if i've been running late for school and put him in the buggy. However with those two, again they are up early, they come to me at 7.3 and their mum gets them up at 6am every day.

If i'm going somewhere like toddler group and the child falls alseep in the buggy, then i just let them, i don't force them to sleep at a time to fit in with me, very rarely do all three sleep at the same time. I don't get the children to sleep so that it fits in with my routine, i let them sleep when they want. You shouldn't be getting stressed out over this.

When I take on new mindees I get parents to write down their usual routine and then we sometimes have to compromise a little eg maybe has a bottle at 3pm which we may need to change to 2.45pm cos need to do school run.
I wouldn't impose a strict routine but if 2 mindees like to nap in the afternoon would try to work it that they nap at same time. I too go to toddlers etc in the morning and if parents need their child to nap in the morning I explain that we go out and is it ok to lie them back in buggy for a nap and usually parents are ok with this but if they were not then I am not the cm for them.
My mindees routine can be slightly different when they are with me to when they are at home but only slightly.
I would speak to your cm and explain that it isn't working out for you this way if she won't try to come to some sort of compromise you may need a new cm.

I am a childminder and on interviewing a family if i thought that i wouldn't be able to fit in with your child's routine then i would tell you.
I am not a parent myself but believe that after nine months of getting your child into a chosen routine this should not be changed by a childminder. If she cannot offer you the care that you require, or fit in with your routine then she should say so, and if you're not happy with her routine then you really need to tell her.

Regardless of when everyone thinks children should sleep, your child's routine should be important to the childminder.
I personally would change my routine if possible to suit the child, so perhaps she could still get the others to sleep in the morning then your baby can sleep in te afternoon, and they can fit in an outing after that, sounds like she wants to have a couple of hours to herself to me.

ds goes to a childminder and one of the reasons I chose her was so that she would follow my routines ...otherwise he could have gone to a nursery.
I expect a childminder to be a home from home environment and that includes my routines. She just works round all the mindees she has, they sleep at different times in different places (I like ds to go to be but the other one sleeps in buggy).
Why should she have 2 free hours to prepare lunch is beyond me?

I don't agree with the morning nap thing at all! My DD is nearly two and has had the long afternoon nap since about six months and just a quick snooze if she needs one in the morning, now she has grown out of it tho.
I would tell her your concerns and see if she listens too you.
As someone said no lunch takes two hours to prepare!!!

I am a childminder & only my 5.5 month old baby mindee may take a short nap in the morning but this is usually in the buggy on our way to playgroup. (mum doesn't mind this at all)

Two of my other mindees who are 15 & 18 months usually nap in the afternoon; I don't put them to bed as they prefer to fall asleep in the cushion area. They sleep for an hour or two.

I always discuss the routine that parents have at home at interview & will always try to keep to their routine as much as possible. However, if a parent had a strict routine such as a morning nap for two hours & perhaps insisted child is placed in cot/bed, then I would not be able to accommodate but would have advised this at interview.

I really feel for you; you should not be made to feel stressed because of having to face a 'grim-faced childminder'.

Goodness knows what she is preparing that could take two hours

Speak to her & tell her that you are unhappy about the morning naps.

thanks for all your replies. I was still feeling very stressed about this today. The CM has now written down a suggested routine for my daughter, which incorporates sleeps at 9am and 2.45pm. She has asked me to stick to this routine for the next few days.

I still can't get her to have a sleep at 9am (though she does look tired and rubs her eyes). Today we had an hour of screaming with her repeatedly standing up in her cot and me repeatedly lying her down. It didn't have any effect - I ended up bringing her downstairs and she was full of beans all the way up to lunchtime.

So then of course, she had her usual sleep after lunch and not the 2.45 one suggested. By the end of the day I was totally stressed out and anxious. I'm on my own a lot with the baby because my husband works shifts (I often spend four straight days and evenings alone with her). It's affecting me so much now what I didn't get dressed until after midday today and I haven't eaten a proper meal all day.

The CM has no children of her own, but she has plenty of experience. She has told me all the things she's read in books (I do appreciate her reading around the subject), for example, that when my baby wakes up at 6am, she needs to have a bottle and go back to sleep because this is too early (ha! no chance!).

You are right when you say that I know my own baby better than anyone else. I just feel a bit worn out and vunerable as a first time mum and I think the way the childminder constantly views my baby as having a problem has knocked my confidence (every time I collect her, it's like going to a bad parents' evening). She's a good sleeper at night, a good eater, and was developmentally fast. Until recently she did have about 55 mins sleep every morning, but even that never seemed good enough (always reported as "only" 55 mins)

I'm beginning to think that her only "problem" is that she doesn't fit in with the routine that suits the CM. So sod this, I'm going to do what my daughter wants tomorrow, and on Monday I'll tell the childminder what her routine is, not the other way round.

By the way, for those CMs who write a daily feedback book for parents, do you actively describe a child as having "whinged for an hour"? I think that sounds a bit crap. I'd probably write "X was a bit grumbly after tea" or something similar.

(scuttles off feeling a bit bolshy)

I think you're right to feel a bit bolshy. I've sent my 3 preschool children to various childminders, nursery, playgroups -- none of them would have insisted on a mandatory sleep like this. ... and am flabberghasted it sounds like she expects you to follow her routine at home too.

I'd be looking for another childminder if it were me.

I've considered it, Flack. My daughter enjoys going there though, and I also don't want upheaval for her. She's only little and I leave her three days a week so I want her to have consistency.

But if things don't improve and I don't feel any better, I may have to consider our local nursery. She's had her name down there for ages and must surely be due a place soon. I'd prefer a childminder than a nursery TBH.

whinged for an hour? The best I can manage to parents is saying 'they've been a bit whingey' bt I could never say worse nor write it down !

Find a new CM.

I don't mind her saying that my daughter has been whingy. That's fair enough. There's just something about having it written down that makes it seem worse.

I worry that if she's viewed as "whinging" then she'll be treated as an inconvenience.

thsi hwole thread makes me rather sad for you dd and he upset sleeping patterns.

i agree chenge you child minder but take care as persumably you dont want to chancge too foten