Attention: Childminders, help me with some questions :)

[Jennlx]

We're looking for a childminder for our two children and seem sort of surprised at the attitude of those who have responded. They have been almost without exception completely inflexible in terms of fees and it has really made me wonder...

Fulltime/Sibling Discount:
I know that some CMs regard two children to look after as two children to look after, regardless of whether they're related, and that's fine. What I don't understand, from a business point of view, is why CMs wouldn't offer a discount to get the chance to look after two fulltimers (presuming they have space/inclination to look after this many children). Surely this would make their job easy - knowing that they have the stability of two full time places, instead of filling gaps with part timers? It just seems very short sighted that CMs seem to obsess over the hourly wage, when they may actually work out with same/more money if they were a bit more flexible.

Expenses:
Now, I know nothing about being self employed, but aren't a lot of things tax deductible for a CM? Petrol, food, electricity, gas, toys, sleeping equipment etc? Just curious....

I'm not trying to stir anything up, I'm just curious!! By my calculations, CMs seem to earn a really decent wage and yet I've seen lots of posts, not necessarily here, where they begrudge parents trying to negotiate fees etc. It doesn't mean they're not valued (because if you weren't, you wouldn't have a job:))), just that we don't have limitless funds! :)

i'm not a cm but I don't think they are being inflexible with their fees and tbh your funds aren't their problem. 2 spaces are 2 spaces doubt most nurseries offer discounts.

Most nurseries around here (London) do discount - you have an hourly fee, a morning only fee, afternoon only fee, or full day fee. The full day ends up being less £ per hour.

And I'm not asking them to take pity on me and my funds - I'm thinking about it from a pure business point of view.

If you were to leave the CM for whatever reason and had been taking two full time spaces, that could leave the CM in a difficult financial position herself. For this reason, I don't offer sibling discounts and actually include a 6 week notice period rather than 4 weeks to give myself , as a CM, a chance to fill their places.

I do offer a lower hourly rate for longer hours, not necessarily full time but in a pattern which will allow me to fill my spaces.

As a CM I have an hourly rate, a half day rate and a daily rate. Naturally the daily rate is less per hour.

I have offered discounts to siblings in the past, when I was a new CM, haven't for a while now.. I am in a busy area (SW London) and am fortunate to have loads of inquiries and most are personal recommendations. It makes no sense on my pocket to offer discounts at all, but if I really like the family I will offer this. It's totally my call.

CMs are VERY limited with the numbers of Early Years children we can care for, so any discounts make a big difference to us. Were I in a less busy area, where childcare inquiries were few and far between, I would possibly offer discounts more readily, as the demand for childcare would be less high.

Some local nurseries do offer sibling discounts, some don't, same with childminders. There is no given. I am aware that CMs are LOADS cheaper than nurseries in my area (so yes, this might be a reason why a CM might get frustrated when a parent wants to negotiate an already good rate, knowing they are much cheaper than a nursery/nanny).

Re a CM expenses, with due respect, as I would never assume to work out what my parents (clients) costs are, I would hope mine don't too, as it is not their business.

My clients have no idea of the huge amount of extra out-of-hours work we do, plus all the extra expenses we incur that parents can have no way of knowing about. If you knew my annual net profit you'd laugh, even though my gross income must look great to my clients.

No business owner is obliged to give discounted rates... and in an area where the demand for childcare is high, I doubt you'll find many that would. I fill my part time spaces within a day, as I have a waiting list.

Sorry if this is not something you want to hear.. it does come down to supply and demand though.. and is entirely up to the business owner what they do.

Yes full time siblings are risky (incase they leave) i used to offer a discount but dont anymore as i would rather the lots of part timers make more business sence to me

As a 'Just starting up' CM this makes interesting reading - the subject of sibling discounts is a difficult one. I will not be offering sibling discount unless I really need the work, however may offer a discounted day rate. I'm interested in the reasons people are for/against so thanks!

I charge a daily rate - non negotiable. For siblings I insist on a longer notice period, as they are a bigger risk.

The nursery we use offers a 5% discount for siblings, but only if they are full time.

In a way I think a sibling pair would be quite good for a childminder, as surely that represents years of potential income in seeing both children through to their school years.

Why not offer a small discount (maybe 2 - 3 %) but require a longer notice period as suggested above?

If you can fill your spaces without giving a sibling discount - from a business point of view you are going to go for maximum profit. Aren't you?

I look after 2 brothers before & after school for which I offer a term time only place to (Mum is a teacher) That is a sort of discount - I offered it because I really wanted the work as I am just starting out.
And I am not fussed about working during the holidays. Although I am now working some of the summer as I took another mindee on. I sort of regret not making them pay a small retainer in the holidays.

With regards to claiming for expenses it is like any other business. It isn't a freebie it is a reflection of what things cost!

If you can only have 3 children under 5 years.. you will want full fees for those 3 children. It doesn't make sense to offer discounts where there is high demand.

There is no guarantee that siblings will stay for years. They might fight or argue. If a parent is made redundant they will both leave at once. No benefits to siblings, only negatives. It is possible that they will get on wonderfully and stay for years, but hasn't happened in my experience.

I once had 3 children from the same family and everyone said how wonderful it must be to deal with one set of parents and one invoice each month, but it really wasn't funny when both parents were made redundant. I nearly lost my house.

Their expenses are none of your business. Would you expect your company to take into account your household expenses if they were considering giving you a payrise for instance?

Why should you get a discount? You are taking up two spaces so should have to pay for two spaces. Why do you assume that because you have two children you should be entitled to benefit from that? When buying other things for them - clothes for instance, would you approach the store manager and explain that because you are buying two winter coats you would like a discount?

Agree with most other posters, I don't offer a discount and I insist on an 8 week notice period as they are a bigger risk. A very simple reason for not offering a discount for siblings is that it makes no business sense at all to if I get enough enquiries not to need to. If I started to struggle I may change this or if the hours were my ideal and I really liked the family etc. then I may offer if.

The tax deductable bit has nothing to do with it, it's still about maximising earnings. We are very limited to what we can earn due to the ratios we have.

The parent of the siblings I look after offered me MORE than double fees. I write 3 months notice into my contracts too for siblings, but can be flexible if I can fill the spaces.

I have looked after 30 sets of siblings over the years.

We do a sibling rate that is lower than his/her younger sibling. That way as the older child does less hours due to nursery we still get the full pay from the younger sibling.

We want to help the familys however is possible. We recently took 2 siblings on and 1 of the children only pays a 1/3 per hour as we knew that they couldn't pay for a full rate. This isn't the norm but if we had turned them down because they couldn't pay the full wack then we would have missed out the equivilant of 36 hours which is quite a lot for us. The highest child before them starting has been 21.

I don't have any full timers: they're all part time and that's the way I prefer it. There's much less impact if a child leaves, and full time siblings leaving, as has been pointed out already, would be disastrous!

Blame the ratios that restrict us - and on a recent Mumsnet survey, many posters thought we ought to be looking after even less children!

Yes, we claim expenses. What you need to understand is that

1. these items are not for our use; they are for the children in our care.
2. they still need to be paid for in the first place: we merely offset them against our tax liability, they are not free!

U decided to have 2 kids!! Pay for them or stay at home !!!!!

Apart from the rude posters, thanks very much for your responses. It all makes complete sense. I was just curious, more than anything else - I never thought about if you were suddenly two places down due to redundancy etc. and that would be tricky. And of course, I would place children in way that suited my family first and foremost also, so that also is completely reasonable.

The tax deductible bit I was just wondering about as a few CMs have mentioned high utilities etc. so I was just checking. And I appreciate that these things are necessary!:) I'm not actually from this country so wasn't sure if it was the case over here.

Perhaps my post wasn't worded too well? It wasn't intended as an attack. I just wanted to hear your side too, so thanks for your responses. :)

Jennix, if you have any other questions, please do feel free to ask (ignore the rude ones, they're always about..). All the best with your childcare search.

I look after lots of sibling pairs but don't do a disocunt for them. 2 children use twice the utilities, eat twice the food, use twice the resources etc etc so its not cheaper for me to have them as a pair. There is also as others have said, all the extra time for paperwork.

I do understand how hard it is to pay for childcare though with more than one child so I have only had 2 price increases in 13 years and will stay at my current level for quite a while now because of the economic climate.

I like to give good value for money though and pride myself on being as flexible as I can possibly be with my familes. I also help them out on occasion to try and make their lives easier when they pickup! I provide a fulll meal in the evening (included in the £4 ph cost), I take parcels in for them since I am home lots, I take their little ones to have shoes fitted, to and from clubs when i can, for haircuts and Drs appointments - whatever I can fit in reasonably whilst still providing quality care for their children.

Depends on what you call a decent wage I guess,

Im a CM, and have 4, actually at the end of this month 3, after schoolers.
siblings are with me for 2 hours, 3 days a week, no they dont get a discount.
1 does 3 hours 5 days a week
the last 1 is 2 1/2hrs, 5 days a week..

Last year as a childminder I earnt 16,000 before tax. I work 60-70 hours a week and have 3-6 children at a time. Then I do 3 hours of paperwork/prepwork per week. Also I do training on top of that.
The house carpets get ruined and the woodwork has chunks out of it from all the toys crashing into it. Even the door locks wear out as I have to lock and unlock my door so many times a day that they last just 2 years. I have to run a giant car instead of the medium sized one our family requires. Yes I can set my expenses against my tax burden but this just means I save paying a small amount of tax. It does not mean any of my expenses work out as being free.

I earn much less than basic wage. I don't offer any sibling discounts. (this is not intended as a rude reply)

I do not give discounts. I hope parents understand that the quality of care given to every child is of an equally high standard.