Nanny groundrules?

[history]

Our new (first) nanny has just started this last week with us and I am trying to find the right balance between giving her some freedom but also knowing what/who my children are doing/meeting. She started last week and asked to take the children bowling - we said fine but then in the diary book which we sue to communicate with each other if as I start earely/finsih late on certain days (we didn't see each other last week as my OH did the handovers) it was obvious after the event that she had arranged to go bowling with other children that I/my children don't know. I suspect they may be her own family members. Is it unreasonable for me to ask that my kids only meet up with other children that they/we know or that I have been asked about?
Also she impressed upon us the need for planning at interview and there are no activities planned in the diary (or at least written for next week) - I now have to call her sunday evening (she's away this weekend) to ask what she's intending on doing with my boys next week as it's the last week of their school hols. I recognise that I am getting used to leaving my children (HENCE A LITTLE EMOTINAL/TIRED THIS WEEK) and going back to work and don't want to upset an experienced and good nanny but I do want to know what my children are up to! Any thought from other parents/nannies very welcome!

Just to be clear - I didn't say I'd have a problem with it, full stop. I said I'd have a problem if a new nanny did this, without mentioning it first.

I think there's a settling in period on both sides with a new nanny, when trust builds up and when both sides work out if the arrangement is working for them. That's what the probation period is for. And before you all jump in, no, I wouldn't expect to wait e.g. 6 months for a nanny to meet up with her friends or family members and their children or charges.

But a new nanny is just that: new. For the first couple of weeks, I'd expect a new nanny to fit in with the things the DC have already been doing - go to their toddler groups / play dates, etc, as well as introduce new stuff.

nannynick I haven't read your post (trying to make lunch in and amongst , so sorry if I haven't answered all your points, but one point I do remember - I wouldn't feel uncomfortable at all (and not sure why I should) if my nanny and I were both invited to the same social event. If anything, I'd think it was nice that we could have a chat in some down-time, rather than the off-to-work / home-from-work handover.

I'm not being extreme about this, and I certainly could never have been accused of being a micro-managing employer (probably could have been accused of the opposite, though ). I just think that a relationship develops over time, and for the first couple of weeks I would want to know, in advance (i.e. on the day would be fine), if any big trips were planned or any meet-ups with people I didn't know - just for peace of mind.

Of course plans change - and what may have seemed like a miserable day may turn out to be gloriously sunny and the perfect chance for a fun picnic in the park with friends. But for the first few weeks I'd expect a nanny to let the parent know what's going on.

And to whoever suggested / implied I wouldn't be able to hang on to my nanny - well, our first was prepared to commute for 3 hours a day to continue nannying for us when we moved (of course that couldn't work long-term), and our second was with us for 3 + years and still nannys for us when she's free during the school holidays.

A lot of the people who replied to the OP were nannies, I just thought she should also hear from a parent who would share her concern in the same circumstance.

nannynick - sorry, I meant to say: I haven't read your post over again, so sorry if I've forgotten points you raised...

Of course I read it!

'if any big trips were planned or any meet-ups with people I didn't know - just for peace of mind'

but why? Would you be ok with the nanny taking them to the park during her first week? I think there are far more possibilities of danger in the park/on the way to the park than at a playdate with some other children. I can see why you'd want to know about big trips out, but what is lost/gained by not knowing/knowing exactly who your children are playing with?

How would that conversation go?

nanny; Can I take the children bowling?
parent: yes that wold be lovely, they really enjoy bowling
nanny: Fab, some of my nanny friends and their charges will be there as well so they can all play together

then what is your response?

Ok that's fine (you still know nothing about them!), OR
No my children must miss out on bowling because I haven't met these children before OR
Despite the fact that the bowling alley is a public place you need to tell your friends and family members that they are not to go there when my children are there as I haven't met them...

I think we need more parents to comment, as it's not about how us nannies feel about it but more about how parents feel about it. I feel it is about trust and what can be done to help build that trust over the first few months.

What would parents like nannies to do to help build that trust? Are frequent photos, text messages the answer?

nannynick is thoughtful and reasoned, as always.

Batman I think the conversation would have gone pretty much as you outlined except with the addition of:

'Okay, well, who are you meeting up with?'. If I didn't feel comfortable with the answer, then I'd say something along the lines of 'sounds like a nice idea, but could we leave that for a few weeks until the DC are more settled with you?'

I would also hope that 'my' nanny wouldn't have mentioned the bowling to the DC until she'd checked it was okay first (this being the first 2 - 3 weeks, after all) so they wouldn't be disappointed because they wouldn't have known it was on the menu.

Texts saying where they're heading if it's anywhere out of the ordinary definitely work. Photos from the trip are lovely too - but not essential as your DC will usually let you know if they've had a good time or not. Just because you know you've hired the best nanny you can possibly find and are confident that they're looking after your DC as well as you can or better, and your head's buried in work, it doesn't mean that you don't have passing thoughts wondering how they're doing, what they're doing, if they're okay, if they're under the wheels of a bus, where they are.

You seem determined to suggest I'm being unreasonable about this, but I really don't think I am. Even if you're convinced you've hired the best person possible to look after your DC, it takes time to build the trust and prove to yourself that your instincts when hiring the nanny were right.

I'm not trying to suggest you're being unreasonable. I really, honestly don't understand what the concern is? This comes up on here fairly often and I always ask 'why? and it never get's answered! What are you worried about? Your children play with some other children you've never met....and....what happens? What is the fear?

If the nanny had taken the children to the park/softplay etc and while there your children start to play with other kids they/you/the nanny don't know, then what? Would you be annoyed that the nanny allowed them to play with strange children...?

I can understand why you would be concerned about the nanny talking the children swimming/on a train/in a car etc. I just do not know what you imagine may happen if your child plays with another 5-year-old you haven't met?!

Is it a fear of losing control rather then a fear of what may actually happen to your DC's?

Well I am a nanny and can see where the op is comming from. I think in the first few weeks I would fit in with the mum and then gradually introduce my circle of nanny friends.

To be honest I don't really like strangers in my own home I don't let my fifteen year old bring people home without me meeting them first.

I think the nanny could have mentioned she was meeting friends.

I do not think taking photos is that much help really.

I think the 'stangers in your home' thing is fair enough, but this was at the bowling alley - a public place!

Holy - I was very lucky, I already knew the only nanny I have (thus far) hired, so I trusted her completely.

However, I think, put bluntly, the concern is not who the children are playing with, it is who the adult is who is with those children. You can interview a nanny and have a settling in period, but fundamentally you don't get the chance to do what most bosses will do in other settings and keep a slightly closer eye on a new employee than a long standing and trusted one. You are basically leaving your children with a (hopefully well vetted) stranger. And the niggling concern is always that your nanny will turn out to be a bad hire and, in fact, when they are going off playing with children you don't know, it is because the nanny wants to spend all day drinking coffee and gossiping with her friends. There are slackers in all jobs, and being a nanny doesn't preclude that. No one wants to feel that their children might be neglected by a poor nanny who is more focused on her own fun than the childrens'.

That's why this comes up as an issue with new nannies, but not so much long standing ones. I have said this before and people always retort with "well, if you don't trust them you shouldn't hire them", but it really isn't that simple. An interview and hire process, no matter how careful, is not 100%, so I think people are naturally cautious until their nanny has settled in. It's also why people feel differently about activities- if you take the children to their well loved playgroup and find some mums/carers to gossip too, great, it's a win/win.

Yes I suppose she could have mentioned she was meeting friends though.

Yes sometimes the children don't get on and you meet up more for the nanny benefit.

Nannynick - I think the biggest thing that can be done to build trust is experienced nannies being pro-actively aware of likely issues. Like the OP has said she raised planning at interview, and you have raised equally valid reasons it's sometimes best not to plan. But I think, if planning has been raised at interview, a good way to handle it would be either explain that point of view at interview, or to write something in the diary that showed you had a plan to have no plan (e.g. "We will plan some activities next week, once we have a better idea of the weather"). I think that kind of thing really builds trust, especially when the nanny is more experienced at being a nanny than the parent is at being a nanny employer.

I also think it helps to be very upfront and explain why things will be nice for the children. For example, in this situation I think the nanny would have been better to say "I thought it might be nice to take the children bowling. I have a nanny friend who looks after children the same age and I think it would be nice for [name] to have a child of roughly the same age to bowl with". Being pro-active and 'over demonstrating' that the children's needs are front and centre is good for building trust.

As a new nanny, I also think it helps to ease into the idea of socialising with your own nanny friends and their charges - ie. not too frequently at first, and better at activities rather than play dates. As your employer gets to know a nanny, they'll be more confident in the nanny's choices.

holy I think the previous two posters have just made most of my points for me . That's pretty much where I'm coming from.

Ok, so the concerns are;

1. who the adult is with these other children
2. that the children won't get on
3. that the nanny is drinking coffee and socialising and the children are not having a nice time/being watched

I think in the case of the OP all of these things are unlikely at the bowling alley, as with a 2 year old and 5 year old it's going to be very interactive as they just wouldn't manage by themselves/ if the nanny wasn't being hands on.

Generally, I can see where you're coming from you'll. I would suggest though, that banning the nanny from her friends during the trial period and then letting her see them may be more problematic. Surely, it's best to discover a slack nanny early on? If your children are old enough to talk about what they did/did they have a nice time etc then them being neglected while the nanny has a coffee shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I think if the nanny had kept it a secret it would be a different issue, she did tell the OP, just in the diary after the event. IME it often happens that we decide on an activity and then I get a call from another nanny/parent asking what we'll be doing that day, I tell them and fairly often they'll say 'oh we're at a loose end, we'll tag along'. I think a playdate at your house/their house is very different from an activity in a public place.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting the nanny being banned from seeing her friends initially, I just meant that, if you were a nanny, it made sense to phase that in over time and as your employer came to trust you. This was this nanny's first week in a new job, which I don't think is the time to be retrospectively telling your employer about meeting up with people she doesn't know. I can see that it might come up on the day, but I still think best practice when you're new to the job would be to drop the mother or father a text telling her about the change of plans - 'X is free and her charges are the same age so I thought it would be nice to make it group trip. I hope that's ok'. It just makes the employer feel informed and involved, which is nice when you're all getting used to each other.

As an employer it's the idea that the nanny is doing what she wants (seeing her friends) rather than what's best for my DC that would concern me.

I don't really like finding out about things after the fact as it were. I have no problem with my nanny meeting friends, say, at the beach whilst working even if they're without kids or looking after children of different ages but I do prefer to be informed of what they're doing even though she's been here for 3 months. At the beginning I think is have been less relaxed!

Really it comes down to acknowledging the DCs parents as the ones who get to okay activities, even if it's only lip service.

As a parent rather than a nanny, I trust our nanny to take care of the three most important - and fragile - people in my world. Every day she makes judgement calls about their safety and well-being, whether that involves starting DS3 on finger foods (7 months), teaching DS1 about crossing roads (4.5 years), or stopping DS2 from climbing up the bookcase (2 years old today).

I also trust her implicitly to make appropriate decisions about who to meet up with and where, and have done from her first day with us. In fact, DS1&2 have both met their "best" friends through our nanny's nanny network. Yes, it's nice to know what the boys have done each day, but I get that information from the nanny diary. I don't need to have it in advance.

Finally, our nanny used to ask permission before inviting new people into our house, but I've long since told her that if she wants to make a spontaneous decision to invite new people round then it's fine with me.

If I trust her with one aspect of the boys' lives, I trust her with all.

That's interesting cinnabar. For me it's definitely a case of trust building up over the initial weeks / months. But I think what you've posted only goes to show that - as always - it's horses for courses and every parent-nanny combo need to come to an arrangement that works for them both.

I wonder what the OP did decide to do in the end? Are you still there, OP?

Interesting... As a parent I am a bit taken aback by the slightly aggressive comments of some of the nannies. Although eventually my personal view is that you have to trust your nanny to do her job, see appropriate people and do appropriate things (and if you can't then you need a new nanny!) you are both new to this particular working relationship, with the nanny having more experience of how these things usually work out, and I would expect your nanny to treat you gently to start off with and understand what a difficult transition this must be for you.

If I had felt the need to know in advance where my new nanny and my child would be and who with for the first couple of weeks, then I would have hoped that she (having far more experience than me of these things) would have humoured me and helped me to settle in to the new arrangement. Some of the nanny answers on here have been a bit unsympathetic I think...

On the other hand, I don't think this is a workable permanent arrangement, and I'm sure that once you get used to the new situation, you will probably see that too and feel happy to let your nanny make spontaneous decisions.

Having said that, I wouldn't contact your nanny on a Sunday, unless you think there is something you need to know on a Sunday to get ready for the Monday activities....

I really hope it gets easier for you - going back to work is a heartwrench (and I only had 10 months off).

Redglow, how do you get to know your childs/childrens friends if they're not welcome to come and meet you at your house.
dont want to start a bunfight or anything, just curious..

Anewyear. My child's friends are welcome to come here when I am in if I do not know them. If I am at work and I do not know this friend they are not allowed in.

The OP is being unreasonable. Having said that I always find these threads bizarre for different reasons. There always seems to be a knack of acknowledgment by some of the nannies who respond that the parents are well....the parents. Wanting to know where your children are and who they are with shouldn't be regarded as the parents interferring but as basic parenting.

My nanny texts me a once a day to let me know how the kids are and what they are up to. If she's taking them somewhere new, she let's me know in advance. If its a nice day and she suddenly decides to take them to the park, she doesn't need my permission but I tend to then get a picture of the kids at the park. I see it as common courtesy and acknowledging that I have more than a passing interest in my children and that doesn't cease just because I am not physically present. Some nannies would regard it as "micromanaging" and I get that so it does make me glad that my very experienced nanny is happy to recognise that I am the parent and her role is to support me. I do make damn sure I pay her well (we're not in Central London but I set her salary according to those benchmarks), throw in perks and treat her well as it would seem that if she left, finding someone with her attitude (if I go by mumsnet anyway) would be rarer than hen's teeth!

To be honest it depends on the parent I do two jobs one mum doesn't even ask what we have done all day, the other mum wants a nanny diary with everything we did during the day. Really it depends what the mum wants not what the nanny wants.

Wow! OP - you really need to relax a little and stop being so controlling. I would also suggest - very gently, as I realise you're new to this, and have only just gone back to work - that you try and set some ground rules for yourself!

I employed two nannies, over a 12 year period, (separately, I didn't have two nannies at the same time ), and I was always very clear that whilst they were working then they were in charge. Obviously I didn't expect the nanny to be doing anything irresponsible, and she always told me what they were going to be doing - but I didn't expect to have to 'approve' anything! Especially not who she was spending time with - that is simply ridiculous.

And please, please, please don't call the nanny over the weekend to talk about work. It's her time off - and she works a very long week for you as it is.

She may well be a believer in planning, but she does also have to get to know your children - I would have thought a fairly low key few initial weeks would be a good thing.

Go back to work and do your job well - and show your nanny the respect that she deserves. Let her do her job well.