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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Advice on notice needed with our childminder, please

38 replies

bsmirched · 08/02/2012 22:25

DS, 19 months old, has been with our CM since September, 3 and a half days a week. Up until Christmas, he seemed very settled and happy and we were delighted with her.

Since Christmas, we've had more and more days when she's reported he's been unhappy, to the point that she says he now cries most of the time when at her house unless he's picked up and cuddled.(Apparently he's fine when taken to toddler group/play barn etc)

On three occasions in the last few weeks she's contacted me at work and asked me to pick him up early as he wouldn't stop crying. She has now said that if her 'strategies' to try to stop him crying for no reason don't work by the end of the next four weeks she wants us to find him alternative childcare as he is interfering with her minding and is 'very hard to listen to'

She has put the above in writing, also stating that I am not to leave in a morning if he's crying and that if he's still crying 15 minutes after we arrive that I must take him away again. She also writes that she will get us out of work to collect him if he cries too much. ( I should add at this point that he's not a whingey, clingy boy when with us!)

Bearing in mind all this, we've been looking for an alternative anyway. I'm a teacher so on half term next week, so could attend some settling in sessions with him at the nursery we've found, so an ideal time for him to start there would be after half term.

I feel that the conditions she's putting on having him mean that I really no longer have the reliable childcare that I signed up for so don't feel inclined to give and pay for the normal notice period. What do you think? Am feeling really let down

Incidentally, due to illness in CM's family I had to ask a friend to have him for the day today - he's only ever met her three times, the last time last June. I stayed there with him for half an hour then left for work. He's been there all day with her, her two children and her toddler group friends who came round for a couple of hours over lunch with their children. He's not cried once!

OP posts:

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MrAnchovy · 08/02/2012 23:02

It does sound like your DS is having a bad time there: I am sorry to hear that. This does not affect your CM's entitlement to whatever notice period is in the contract, although as it sounds like she will be happy to see him go you may be able to negotiate a shorter period/smaller payment in lieu.

Bossybritches22 · 08/02/2012 23:36

I think as she has "asked you to go" there is your get-out.

Write back to her and say you agree it isn't working,despite your best efforts of all concerned and so as not cause more distress on either side you will be withdrawing him from her services with immediate effect as it clearly doesn't benefit any of you to continue with the present arrangement.

Do you have a written contract?

moogster1a · 09/02/2012 07:48

Even if it is her suggestion that you end the contract she is still entitled to her 4 weeks notice unless she decides otherwise ( ie. if she really doesn't want to take him for the next few weeks ).
To be fair to her she does sound like she's really tried with him. Maybe it's one of those things such as he doesn't like one of the other chidren or a pet of hers etc.
I don't think she's being unreliable; she's recognising that he's getting very distressed and not many people like to see lo's really upset for hours! ( I would rather that than she pretended everything's fine so that she continues the contract and getting paid. She's being honest with you)
Do the fair thing and pay her the money owed

moogster1a · 09/02/2012 07:57

"there is your get-out"
I really don't like this attitude that you should try to worm your way out of ayng what is morally and usually owed to somebody. Very unpleasant.

HSMM · 09/02/2012 08:00

She's given you notice. If she refuses to provide care during that notice period, then you might have a case for not paying those days. I think you should move him asap and pay the notice. Different children feel more comfortable in different environments.

LikeAnAdventCandleButNotQuite · 09/02/2012 08:11

Before you do anything, try and arrange an hour out of work (I know you are a teacher so maybe not possible) and call in, unannounced. LO happy (when not being cuddled/held) = her strategies work OR she wants your business off her books (could there maybe be a potential full time offer which she can't take as it may push her over her permitted numbers?)

I'm sorry if the above sounds finikity, but I am rather dubious of a Childminder who is unable to settle / distract a toddler to the point where she is having to call you away from work (outside of LO being poorly and therefore generally unsettled) on a regular basis when you have a clear example of your LO settling with someone who he is a lot less familiar with.

Fraktal · 09/02/2012 08:32

I'm wondering whether this counts as a refusal to provide a service, in which case you shouldn't be made to pay.

I would look for an alternative ASAP but that may take you the notice period and any childcare is presumably better than none?

Bossybritches22 · 09/02/2012 10:24

moogster I'm not suggesting she refuse to pay anything, but given the CM's inability to settle an upset child and her virtual "expulsion" of said child I would argue the toss about a full notice period.

The OP didn't want to move her child the CM has decided she can't cope not the OP's fault.

As Likanadvent said, if an experienced CM can't settle a child or at least have a good chat/pool ideas with mum before giving up on him then I would question her actions.

I used to take it as a challenge when we had a hard to settle child and would NEVER summon a mother from work, it was up to us to make it work that's what you pay for, we always found a way round it together with the parent.

Something odd going on here with the CM I think best it is ended asap.

redglow · 09/02/2012 12:31

Why should she pay when the childminder has give her the notice that's not fair.

moogster1a · 09/02/2012 12:49

Why should she pay when the childminder has give her the notice that's not fair
because that's the terms of the contract the OP signed perhaps? Would you rather CM's gave no notice and could drop your child with no notice.
it works both ways. Parents give 4 weeks notice, CM's give 4 weeks notice.

Bossybritches22 · 09/02/2012 13:34

Yes but moogster we don't know if they did have a contract , the OP hasn't said yet.

Either way 4 weeks when she has virtually expelled her charge is a bit steep, but it is up to the OP to negociate what she feels is fair.

The 4 weeks on either side arrangement is when the contract is terminated by mutual agreement because of a change in circumstances, not when the CM decides she has had enough of a certain child

redglow · 09/02/2012 13:58

Yes but the childminder is finishing her not the other way round. The cm has given her a new contract she might have to call her out from work if she is crying, how can the poor mum do a teaching job like that she will be on edge all day.

moogster1a · 09/02/2012 14:00

it makes n difference why the contract has been terminated. It doesn't have to be mutually agredd at all. Let's have the scenario that the CM wants t spend more time with her own family. So, she gives 4 weeks notice. Parents may be wanting their child to stay, but that's how it wrks.
Equally, there are many many times where a parent gives 4 weeks notice and the CM is really upset ( but can't show it ) because a huge amount of her income is being lost. That isn't mutually agreed as such. Either party can give notice for any reason, or no reason at all! as long as you honour the 4 weeks notice.

moogster1a · 09/02/2012 14:02

You also do not negotiate what you think is fair. Like it or not, CM contracts are legally binding. You don't stick to it you can find yourself with a county court summons.

thebody · 09/02/2012 14:29

As moogster says and sounds like a sad situation for your little one and you. I wouldn't try anymore with her as its clearly not working for either of them, she may have tried very hard with him or not, u will never no so u should pay her what u owe her as per contract and all move on.

Fraktal · 09/02/2012 16:49

I think it does make a difference though if the CM is categorically refusing to provide the service at all. In this case, however, she is albeit with a hefty change to the conditions.

redglow · 09/02/2012 16:59

The cm is not providing the service if she is ringing mum up , so mum cannot really work. Especially a teacher how can she just walk out.?

Bossybritches22 · 09/02/2012 17:15

moogster the 2 scenarios you quoted are both by mutual agreement, the CM might not like it but as she set the contract that's the deal.

CM says sorry I want more time with LO, Mum says OK through gritted teeth but an end date is agreed .

Equally if Mum moves a job she gives notice to CM they agree the date 4 weeks hence, & the CM gnashes her teeth at the loss of income or reaches for her waiting list!

In this case we don't KNOW there is a contract or what the agreed notice is although it is usual to have 4 weeks.

However as the CM has been expressing her dissatisfaction with the OP's son being distressed since Christmas I would venture that there is an element of "constructive dismissal" in that she has repeatedly dictated what will happen instead of sitting down to have a good chew over of ideas with her client to try and resolve the issue.

Therefore I, personally, would not be offering to pay the whole notice period.

But we don't know all the facts, it's up to the OP.

Hope you get it sorted bsmirched it's very stressful for all concerned.

LadyHarrietDeSpook · 09/02/2012 18:31

I would be saying to the CM if she's finding it very stressful having him it may be easier to cut the notice period short and see what she says.

If she insists on the four weeks she is contractually entitled to, then it has to be on the original terms of the agreement, i.e. no ringing you and making you take him out.

DH is a teacher and when I saw your post I had to reply. There is no way you could operate like this, someone ringing you up every day.

She needs to decide if she can manage it, if she can't the gracious and morally right thing to do is to let you take your DC out early and make alternative arrangements.

bbcessex · 09/02/2012 18:49

Totally agree with LadyHarriet... If she can't have him under the original terms, then surely to contract doesn't stand?

Seems really odd.

Original poster

bsmirched · 09/02/2012 20:27

Wow, thanks for all the replies!
I do have a contract with her, but as some of you have said, I feel that the conditions she's imposing on DS being with her mean that she's not really doing the job I'm paying her for. Each morning when I go, I don't know if I'm going to be leaving to go to work or having to take DS with me! Equally, I don't know from one hour to the next if she's going to phone and ask me to collect him! My head teacher has been incredibly understanding thus far but I can't expect her to keep letting me nip off early! I just feel that she's making the situation untenable and feel that I have no choice but to find alternative arrangements but really can't afford to pay 4 weeks notice to her whilst paying for a month up front at a nursery!

OP posts:

Helendee · 13/02/2012 14:52

I think that you should be pleased that you have such a responsible childminder who is willing to admit that she is finding your ds too difficult to look after. Surely you would rather he was placed somewhere he will settle and be happy. Your current cm could easily lie to you and pretend that everything was hunky dory but she is realistic and efficient enough to know that things aren't working out.

Of course you have to pay her re the terms of the contract, if you don't you will probably find yourself taken to the small claims court.

Bossybritches22 · 13/02/2012 16:23

Helendee a responsible CM would have asked the OP to have a chat at a mutually convenient time right at the outset of any problems. Then concerns could have been raised and discussed and a plan made for withdrawing or supporting the CM in settling the distressed child.

You cannot expect a client to accept moving goalposts with regard to the service offered,and it is unrealistic (for both parties) to demand that the OP stay with the child in the morning and remove him after 15 mins if not settled.

We all know that if a child is unsettled in a setting that having a parent/carer hovering and then withdrawing the child is both unsettling to the child and also sends mixed messages about mums role.

OP I thin you need to ask for a chat outside her normal CM hours to be fair to all concerned and to keep it confidential. It's not fair to continue if your son is distressed and she obviously doesn't want him their but she has to fulfil her side of the contract if she expects you to to honour yours.

Helendee · 13/02/2012 16:48

I would suggest that it is equally the parents' responsibility to talk to the childminder about developing problems, it is obvious that the problem has been there for a while now.

Communication is usually the answer, on both sides.

soph12345 · 14/02/2012 16:07

Having read all of this thread I can empathise with both sides. I'm a registered child minder. So as a bit of a cheeky girl I'm wondering if the lady did pull her ds out and if she's looking for another cm I'd love to have him! Not sure if I'm allowed to say that but I have. I'm sure in the right environment he'd be fine. X

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