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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Do childminders normally ask for holiday pay?

87 replies

G1nger · 07/02/2012 16:30

I'm interested in a local childminder, but on the website it says she takes 6 weeks holiday every year and that parents are expected to pay 50% of the daily costs throughout this. Is this normal? Seems a bit cheeky to me...

OP posts:
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thebody · 08/02/2012 16:31

Understand your points mr anchovy, I can honestly say that of course I work legally, pay taxes, please most importantly my mindees and their parents but I do seek to make as profitable and and successful business as possible.

I think it's quite acceptable to set your work practises within your market, I dont see it's really my job to worry about single parents( and i was one myself for a while) or to offer below market rates, my duty, moral or otherwise is to support my own 4 Dcs and to keep my family afloat in these difficult times.

HSMM · 08/02/2012 17:12

here are my terms:
no charge for my holiday or sickness
Daily rate and terms not the same as other local minders (because I like to charge more)

Thinking of adding in a clause about being allowed to subcontract the children as chimney sweeps Grin

G1nger · 08/02/2012 17:24

Has OP said whether she is charged when she is on holiday?

Family holidays and bank holidays are charged full fees.

OP posts:
HSMM · 08/02/2012 17:59

It's not 50/50 then ... is the CM open for business on bank holidays?

Even with all the charges it still might be cheaper than some alternatives

G1nger · 08/02/2012 18:10

Closed on bank holidays.

OP posts:
bakingaddict · 08/02/2012 18:20

Er Mr Anchovy public sector workers get 27 days holiday plus bank holiday and in the NHS if you have over 5 years service this rises to 29 and if over 10yrs, 30 days holiday. The NHS alone is Europe's biggest employer and then there's countless other public sector employers

ifeelloved · 08/02/2012 19:19

Nhs might be the biggest employer but they still don't employ everybody. My holiday is also pretty generous however I couldn't cover 6 weeks holiday either.

Op, we're the bank holidays on top of that or did it include?

G1nger · 08/02/2012 19:36

Bank hols are in addition to the 6 weeks hol.

OP posts:
NickNacks · 08/02/2012 20:16

I don't get it?

If you're not keen to pay her all this time off ( and I agree with you ) then just move on and find someone else.

G1nger · 08/02/2012 20:40

That's what I'm doing. But what I'm also doing here is asking what's normal. I don't want to reject options, only to find that everyone's the same.

OP posts:
ifeelloved · 08/02/2012 21:39

Thought so. Well I don't know many people who have that much holiday.

To answer your original question, unfortunately I think it is the norm but I also think it is very cheeky, but would advise you to look elsewhere. Good luck.

thebody · 08/02/2012 21:40

The 2 year old did a good job on chimney! Now looking to diversify into the rag trade, primark interested but not sure fingers big enough to work machines! Dam! Have to use the after schoolers!

Tanith · 08/02/2012 22:12

I often hear on messageboards about these so-called price fixers who all meet up together and agree to charge the exactly same fees to poor, ripped off parents.

Every time I've probed a little further, it transpires that this is just someone's impression. In one case, it turned out to be a childminding Network that never even arranged fees: it was just a parent who failed to understand what a Network really was. The same goes for real life: I've never known childminders to get together and fix their fees. It's an effort to get them all together at the group meetings at all. In all the years I've been a committee member, I can confirm that fixing of fees has never formed any part of our agendas. The most we ever get is a new childminder tentatively asking how much we charge and - get this! - they're all different.
Nor have I ever attended a childminding support group or Network that ever dictated or agreed on how fees should be charged.

So I feel it's grossly unfair, even libellous, to accuse childminding groups of acting illegally. Saying that childminding groups have the opportunity to do it is no proof at all. No doubt they also have the opportunity to arrange an armed bank robbery or set up their very own male escort service (that'll get you all to the next meeting, won't it?! Grin). My neighbour left his keys in his car the other day and I had the opportunity to nick his car - it doesn't make me a joyrider.

Childminders are self-employed. They set fees and rates according to their own businesses. They're in the unusual position of providing a service for several clients simultaneously, therefore the holiday situation isn't as straightforward as for other self-employed professions. It's entirely up to them whether they charge full fee, part-fee or no fee and whether or not they offer other concessions. It's up to the parents to sign up for this service if they want it. Some parents do prefer to pay up front for the holidays rather than have it hidden away in a higher hourly rate. They see this as fairer.

If we all charge exactly the same way, it takes away choice for parents. I imagine that's why the NCMA has changed its stance because not even the NCMA has a right to influence our charging policies as individuals.

G1nger, there isn't a normal rate or policy for holidays. We're all different so you can theoretically pick the best deal for your situation. If you're not happy, you need to keep looking.

MrAnchovy · 08/02/2012 23:33

So it seems that childminders in general are sometimes perceived as operating in a way that their customers believe is unfair.

Do any childminders think this is a problem?

thebody · 08/02/2012 23:59

Tanith that has to b the most sensible reasonable and fair and funny post I have ever read in mumsnet.

Mr anchovy, I really don't understand ur posts, my local cm group had difficulty agreeing our Christmas do venue? Let alone a cartel of pricing!

Did u write screen Play for tinker Taylor , if so that's y no one understood it!!!

MrAnchovy · 09/02/2012 00:47

So I feel it's grossly unfair, even libellous, to accuse childminding groups of acting illegally.
I agree that it was unfair and wrong of me to do that (although I do not agree that it was libellous) and I have already retracted that remark in an earlier message.

However I stand by my remark that (whatever the cause), if it is the case that most or all childminders in an area operate a practice that is potentially unfair to parents then it can hardly be said that the parents have a choice; they have to pay up and put up or make other arrangements for childcare.

minderjinx · 09/02/2012 07:19

Well said Tanith

HSMM · 09/02/2012 07:21

Mranchovy I agree that some customers find some CMs terms and conditions unfair. Some people think my daily rate is unfair. But this is the same with most self employed businesses. I think it is unfair to be charged a call out fee for an engineer, if he just looks at my appliance, scratches his chin and says he can't fix it! That's life and we browse around to find the best fit for our needs.

thebody · 09/02/2012 09:52

Mr anchovy, I can't see you have any evidence at all for your remarks. I actually have no idea how much most of the cms charge in my local group and can honestly say I have no idea of their policies on holiday pay.

I would feel rude asking as its each others private business.
I do admit to warning another cm about a bad paying parent but feel that's
legitimate.

Most of our conversations centre around improving the toys in the centre, fund raising, eyfs and bloody ofsted.

ElizabethDarcy · 09/02/2012 13:56

Service providers have different t&c's, for their own personal reasons... different strokes for different folks. What works for one does not work for another. This is the same in ALL service provider industries.

If you disagree with a t&c then do not sign up. Simple.

leeloo1 · 09/02/2012 14:07

Surely 'price-fixing' wouldn't work anyway, as we all offer such different services?! Different hours, school pick-ups? after schoolies/just little ones, own children to consider? term-time only? day/hourly rate? include nappies/food/snacks/outings? etc etc etc.

Its worth remembering that as a CMer, parents' holidays don't actually mean you get time off - unless you only have 1 child to mind, so it can be tiring and unrelenting!

Also, if parents work a 'typical' 9-5 that means that we're probably working 8-6 - and often parents with different working hours mean CMers often work 12 hour days - often without breaks if mindees don't nap/their naps don't coincide.

I know of a local CMer who effectively takes 7 weeks leave - 2 weeks unpaid and 5 weeks half pay. She says she needs that time off to be with her (young) children and she always returns refreshed and positive after her leave - so it makes her a better CMer! She is a fab (and popular/oversubscribed) CMer, and surely its better to have a happy and rested CMer than a stressed, exhausted one who can't afford to take any leave!

OP - if 6 weeks holiday (or 3 weeks paid holiday, as its only half-pay for her holidays) may seem like a lot - how much will you/your DP get? I'd be asking the CMer how much notice you get of her holidays - if plenty of notice then its not a problem, just arrange your leave to coincide with hers. It may well be she has 2 weeks at Easter, Summer, Xmas when you'd take leave anyway.

thebody · 09/02/2012 15:16

I think some parents see cms as a cheaper child care option and get a shock when they actually realise that registered cms are small business owners who expect decent wages, and annual leave like the rest if the population.

MrAnchovy · 09/02/2012 20:14

Evidence that in some areas it is normal practice for childminders to charge parents while their service is unavailable because the childminder is on holiday? Just on this thread...

mopbucket Tue 07-Feb-12 16:54:00
I take 23 days a yr off and charge half fees to parents, its normal practice near me

ifeelloved Wed 08-Feb-12 08:09:52
Unfortunately it does seem to be normal practice.

thebody Wed 08-Feb-12 13:13:41
I am self employed and do t charge for my holiday either. If however I worked in an area where this was normal practise,I've some cms do then I would charge the market rate and get paid holidays!

I don't have any evidence that childminders meet to agree how much they should charge, and I have never said that they do.

registered cms are small business owners who expect decent wages, and annual leave like the rest if the population.
Wages and annual leave come with a job. When you become self employed you trade those for the opportunity to work as hard as you can and to keep the rewards for yourself.

Those that know me (online) will know that I am hugely supportive of childminders both individually and as a group, but I do believe very strongly that in order to present childminding in the best possible light as a caring, but professional, service the practice of charging for that service on days when you are not available to provide it should stop.

NickNacks · 09/02/2012 20:22

And how many have you read that say they don't charge?

It seems your just shit stirring to me.

I don't go around complaining about the extortionate prices accounts charge (and they all charge the same around here so I will assume they are illegally price fixing to rob me blind), I just choose not to use them. The same right every parent has not to use a childminder. Noone is holding a gun to your head and making you use a childminder! Just choose other childcare if you don't like us!

NickNacks · 09/02/2012 20:23

*accountants