2 year old refusing to say please or thank you

[WhoAteAllTheJellyTots]

One of my mindees is 2 and her speech is really good for her age - she strings sentances together, is able to understand and answer questions that I ask her and is able to follow instructions, so I know that her level of understanding is good.
She absolutely refuses to say please or thank you though, which is driving me mad! If she wants a toy and won't say thank you, I have started not letting her have the toy, as I know she is more than capable and I always give her the option...'say thank you to (other child) for giving you the toy' 'if you don't say thank you, you won't be able to have the toy' I give her a few chances usually but she just stands there with a really determined and stubborn expression on her face as if to say....NO! I REFUSE TO SAY THANK YOU
So then I don't let her have the toy which leads to tears, but as I've given her several chances I think she has to live with the consequences of not having the nice toy to play with.
She is like this at meal times too. All the other children say thank you when I put down a sandwich in front of them, or when I give them a snack or a drink, but she refuses to do so. I obviously can't not give her the food, or else she'd end up going all day with nothing to eat.
Any advice????

It might be better to stop putting pressure on her and just model it.

What belindarose said.

Back off. Praise those that do say it and ignore her not saying it.

I agree with the others just keep doing it yourself and with the other children, I have one who refuses to say sorry here but she'll do it at home.

I think you are losing the plot. You need to think about child development.

She is being two years old. What do you expect? She is exerting control over you and is suceeding. She knows that she gets your attention by refusing to obey.

Childminder gives out food
Chindminder "SAY THANK YOU"
Toddler sticks finger up their nose and grins.
Chindminder "SAY THANK YOU"
Toddler plays with food and grins
Chindminder "SAY THANK YOU"
Toddler says "NO, NO, NO"
Chindminder "SAY THANK YOU"
Chindminder "SAY THANK YOU"
Toddler says "NO, NO, NO"

I suggest that you model good manners to her and take the pressure of her.

Childminder gives out food.
Rude tot ignores childminder and stuffs face
Childminder ignores Rude Tor and gives food and attention to second mindee.
Second mindee says "Thank you"
Childminder "Your welcome Second mindee, would you like milk or water with your sandwich"
Second mindee "Milk please"
Child minder pours drink for second mindee.
Second mindee says "Thank you."
Childminder says to Rude Tot "would you like milk or water"
Rude Tot gets the idea and says "Milk please"
Childminder says "Please could you pass me your cup"
Rude Tot passes cup and child minder says "Thank you."
Child minder pours milk and Rude Tot says "Thank you."

She will say it in her own good time, my ds now 3.5 would never say please and thank you, at times I did the whole stubborn thing and not give it but it always ended up a drama. I gave in and let him get on with it, now he is the only one of my dc to say thank you and please off of his own back. he even goes so far as to say "thank you mummy for cooking me my dinner" or "this is very very nice thank you very much"

Yes model please and thank you, 2 year olds really don't comprehend WHY we have social conventions, that understanding develops over time

No need to do battle at all

Thanks all for the advice. You're right, I was having a bad day and lost a bit of perspective

If I found out you were behaving in this way towards my child, I would (a) cease your services without notice and (b) report you to Ofsted. As others have said, you need to stop this behaviour.

My DD is 20 months old and she doesn't say 'please', but fairly regularly (80% of the time) says thank you. Why? Because I say it to her and she copies me.

You are being cruel to a very tiny child.

Cross posts - I hope the battle has stopped for you.

WhoAteAllTheJellyTots, None of us are saints and we all have bad days.

Thanks ReallyTired, I feel absolutely awful now. It's just been one of those days, I don't normally let things get to me but just got a bit fed up today

Well, it's not just one bad day is it, if you've been doing this over a period of time as you say you have in your OP.

??? Really I think you should give it a good go at correcting their manners, and good on you. Children these days are so greedy and rude.
Ignoring bad behaviour does not correct it.
It is your home after all and you have certain values and respectfulness that should be maintained.

The child is 2, Clareypen. She doesn't understand yet what please, thank you and sorry mean. It's not 'bad behaviour' for a 2 year old not to observe a social convention that they have no capacity to understand.

Also, whilst it is the OP's home, it is not her child. It is her job to look after children, but she is not the parent.

It's very sad that you think 'children' (all children??) are greedy and rude. I don't find that to be the case at all. If you come across a lot of people (children and adults) whom you find rude, perhaps you could consider whether you are just receiving what you give out and that they are simply responding to you in the same manner that you deal with them.

2 year olds do have concepts of behaviour and of manners. Although it maybe be parroted by the parents at least it is still being done.

The 2 yr olds that I child mind know they should say please and thank you a d are given lots of praise and attention when they do.

"Children these days are so greedy and rude."

What ALL children, ALL the time, everywhere?

Please tell me YOU are not a childminder or childcare professional Clarypen?

If you've been doing this for more than a day, agree with the others that it's bad practice and would be v annoyed if you were our CM.

Our CM, if concerned about behaviour, talks to us, explains what she's doing in response, so we know what's going on, can suggest things / let her know if it's an issue at home too, or reinforce things at home.

The more you make it into an issue the more she will dig her heels in. Choose your battles. Just always say them yourself and keep it as normal that DCs say it. Just lightly say 'please' or 'thank you' for her, without any emphasis, and it will come automatically-eventually.

Clarypen, of course the OP can set standards etc for her home, but if her discipline policy involves with-holding toys etc then she should set that out clearly for parents to understand in her discipline policy or in person.

She is only two for heavens sake! Lighten up a bit...

Agree with all the others - pick your battles, model the behaviour you want to see/praise behaviour you like, and remind yourself to approach all the children with kindness.

Getting into a battle of wills with a 2 year old is never a good idea.

I inderstand your frustration, I think praise and stickers works better than arguing. I think you are quite right to instill manners, as cms we aren't just there to 'Mind children' but to teach values and instill good principals. Chat to parents and get them to reinforce at home . All the 2 year olds in my setting say thank you!