New nanny

[eastnorth]

Hi I have a nanny due to start Thursday just for one day a week son has childminder for three days. Do I leave his lunch out or tell the nanny to make him a sandwich, I do not want him to have a cooked meal as he does not at CM so want to keep it similar. Would love him to get out in the morning can I say this or will I come across really bossy. Any advice from nannies would be great.

Unlike with a childminder, a nanny is your employee so you can tell them what to do.

You could certainly leave out a pre-prepared lunch, though you may prefer your son and nanny to eat together - so perhaps leave sufficient supplies for both of them to eat the same thing.

Communication is key. You need to come up with a way of communicating with your nanny on a regular basis, so whenever any information needs to be passed to the other person (so you to nanny, nanny to you) you have a system in place for doing that. Personally I quite like using Email for that, but not everyone likes that method. A note by the kettle may work just as well.

When you interviewed your nanny did you talk about what you expected them to be doing during the day? Some nannies love going out and about (I would say I'm like that) where as others love Arts & Crafts (I'm not great at that), others are good at music, lets pretend, etc. Play to your nannies strengths, so your son gets to do things which your nanny is good at and likes doing.

Sure you can say you would like him to be taken out somewhere... but where? At first you may need to give a list of suggestions of places to go, especially if the nanny isn't that local to you. Your nanny on the other hand may know of some great places to go, so may not mind at all being left to find their own places to visit.

Budget - how much money are you allocating to outings? Trips out can cost money, so perhaps allocate a budget to it so that your new nanny has some idea of what sort of things they could do, and what is out of budget (if your son wants to do something that is over budget, they could perhaps use two weeks budget on that thing, and not use any budget the prior/next week).

Generally, on the first day of the job the MB has left lunch, and at the end of the day has explained what she would like me to make for the child/ren on other days, explaining where food is kept etc.

Does the nanny know the area? Are you expecting her to drive/walk/use public transport etc? You can suggest she goes to the park etc, but be prepared that she may have already sourced out places she would like to take him.

Well I sort of thought nannies were their own boss like my childminder. Would like my son to have some fresh air really, think I will just leave them to it to start with.

Have you agreed a contract with them, set up payroll, all that sort of stuff? It's a lot different to using the services of a childminder. You will find a lot of information about nannies in this section of Mumsnet Talk, so scroll down the list of message threads to find out more about things like PAYE/Payroll, Contracts, Expected Duties, Holiday Entitlemeet etc.

Thanks nick, she is self employed so will n ot need to. Yes have done a contract very basic one though.

You have a contract and presumably expect her to work agreed regular hours at your home? If so that doesn't sound self employed to me

hmrc advice see here for advice on employment status

Thanks bit confused as she said she can be self employed as she works for three families the contract came from her not me. She showed me her sc60 think it was that.

Think you can be self employed if you are a temp or maternity cover but working for 2/3 families isn't self employed usually. It's multiple employers.

I would be careful as the consequences for you if you are held to be an employer are punitive - paying back Paye/nic owed (plus potentially interest) and fines of up to 3k.

You need to look at tests in hmrc site- if she is under your supervision , working regular hours/pay and you wouldn't accept a substitute , I would find hard to see how isn't employed. And if she says has Contract that says otherwise that cuts no ice with hmrc. They look at the facts of the case.

Think I will contact the tax people thanks for pointing it out have a happy new year.

Happy new year to you too

Hmm, it seems that you expect to exert little control over the carer - 'like a childminder'. If she is free for instance to take your son back to her house and do her own housework etc. then it is not employment. This would be a very unusual arrangement however, and if you are paying nanny rates it is probably not what you expect. There are two other problems:

If she does take him to her house Ofsted may consider this to be childminding and require registration.

If it really was an SC60 she showed you it looks like she is not declaring her income and paying tax. The SC60 was a form used for self employed workers in the construction industry over 10 years ago which has now been superceded.

Call the HMRC Employment Status Team who will be able to give you a decision that you can rely on: it may depend on them looking in to her situation to check she is registered as self employed.

Thanks MR A I will cal them asap. Do not know what she did show I will ask for it again.

No it was never mentioned that she would go home. So if i employed her and paid tax it would be emergency rate and then she would get the tax rebate and not me, is that correct?

Big thanks for the link, really helpful.

Sorry me again so what about the sitter I use should she be taxed?

So if i employed her and paid tax it would be emergency rate and then she would get the tax rebate and not me, is that correct?

What do you mean by tax rebate? Perhaps you mean that when income tax rates change in April, she will get an increase in personal allowance?

As employer, you agree a Gross wage... so you know your cost is Gross salary + Employers NI.

So if she is not self employed I can agree a gross wage but I when I interviewd other nannies they all wanted net pay. I thought this was normal. Nick what about my babysitter I just pay cash is this wrong?

Babysitters are ad-hoc, they can refuse to come, say they are busy the evening you are requesting, say they can't do the start time you want but could do a different time.

As the employer of a nanny who has other income, you can certainly agree a Gross wage with them. Net is not normal... even nannies with contracts which give a Net wage indication may well have a Gross wage written into the contract. You don't know what their tax code will be in your employment... and their tax code could change during their employment. Agreeing a Net wage can be a bit like writing a blank cheque - so it is not advised. Nannies who in the past have worked for parents who did not seek advise about pay, may well have had Net pay agreements, but that does not mean it's the norm. Agencies I feel are to blame, if they talked about Gross salaries to nannies it would be much better as more nannies would understand about the difference.

If a nanny wants to know what they might get as take home pay, MrAnchovy's calculator is very useful in giving good figures. www.mranchovy.com/calc/

Thanks Nick this is very complicated surely I could have a nanny adhoc then? Glad I can do gross pay it will not be so expensive.

You could have a nanny adhoc if you hired her for some off (eg to cover a few days) but a nanny that would have any type of frequency of hours and recurrence of work.

Also don't forget (depending on how much nanny paid and what pay band is) there may be employers nic om top of the gross wage. Mr anchovys calc adds that in - it would be on top of gross wage for nanny (gross in this case includes only employees ni and Paye).

Well I am employing her for Thursdays she will have a Thursday of every four weeks as she has to work for her employer that day, I can work from home on these days or any other days she did not turn up. Wondering whether to have her adhoc if she is not self employed.

That still sounds pretty regular employment - you could run it past hmrc team mrsnchovy mentioned. If she is working st your home, with same pay, hours and accepting your instruction (as opposed to you dropping her at her home and letting her get on with care as you would a cm).

Well my babysitter is exactly the same time every week so thats wrong as well then. Will run it past the hmrc, thanks.

Once children are in bed a babysitter can do as they like. Whereas what a nanny does is more under your control. Do run it past hmrc, would be interested to know what they say.