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Original poster

Is this gross negligence or am I over-reacting?

53 replies

thinkofthemoney · 16/12/2011 19:29

Hello, can anyone help - nanny or employer?
We have had our nanny for just over a year. I have never gelled with her and there have been a few minor teething issues but she seems to take good care of our two children (2 and 4 yrs). They never seem overly happy to see her or sad to see her go but happy enough IYKWIM.
Anyway, today a neighbour we know to say hello/chat to called round almost in tears. She said she was unsure whether or to to tell me but 2 weeks ago she was walking her dog at the local river and saw my 4 year old dd sat on a wall directly bordering a very high lock (loch? sorry about spelling!) all by herself.
She ran over as she was leaning backwards and thought she was going to fall in. It is about a 10 foot drop into deep water here. She was looking round for me or my husband but no-one was to be seen. By this time a small crowd had gathered and then about 5 mins later (she can't be sure but says it was some time) our nanny came running from out of sight at least 150m and from behind a very heavy gate (the kind to keep cows out).
She then really told off my daughter for disappearing and the neighbour was quite cross as she felt our nanny had placed dd in a highly dangerous position.
The nanny had been chatting with another nanny friend and obviously hadn't realised dd was missing.
Our nanny has never mentioned a word of this to us.
Now I feel sick that if the neighbour had not been there our daughter may have fell in. A long time ago the lock keepers son of a similar age fell in and died.
Now I never let my children out of my sight around water and my initial feeling is I can not trust her to have my children again.
Clearly I need to get her side, however our neighbour has no reason to make this up and it was obviously quite distressing for her to tell us - she did not want to cause trouble as she realised it may mean our nanny losing her job.
So do you think this is a sacking offence? I'm not sure I could trust her again and am wondering if there have been other instances she's not told us about.
It is also going to be a nightmare getting childcare over Christmas - there is no way I either of us can take time off work and we have no family so I need to be sure if sacking for gross negligence is the right thing or not.
Opinions gratefully recieved - thanks for reading of you have reached the end!

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girliefriend · 16/12/2011 19:36

hmmm I think the issue here is that she didn't tell you. That would concern me more than the incident itself (which is bad enough) as I would be worried about her not being open and honest.

If this is the first incident then I would have a meeting with her and get her full side of the story then depending on how honest she is being either a official warning (ie if I have to warn you about anything else then thats it) or sack her!

TBH your instincts seem to be telling you this lady maybe isn't the right one for your family.

KateShmate · 16/12/2011 19:55

You are definitely not over-reacting, but I cannot comment on whether you should sack her - I don't know what she is like 'normally' as a Nanny.

But one thing I have to say is that this lady is looking after your child - if you dont feel 100% sure that your DD is safe then you are going to be constantly worried about her (understandably).
I think its important that you completely trust your Nanny, and by the sounds of it you don't (again, understandably). For your peace of mind I think you need to think carefully about all of this.
I trust our Nanny 110% with our DD's; hard to explain, but I dont work - I have triplets and 2 older girls and since the triplets were born she has helped in the house - I only leave them alone with Nanny when Im doing errands/pre-school run etc. But I see them with her most days and she treats them with the love and care that I do - I would hate the feeling of even going to the shop 5 minutes away and thinking whether my DD's would be safe or not - it would be going through my head constantly, and I wouldn't be able to stand that.
Hope you're okay after what happened, and hope you come to the right decision :)

Novstar · 16/12/2011 20:11

Yes that would be grounds for instant dismissal for me. A 4 yo simply should not be allowed on their own near deep water. I can see that talking to friends and losing sight of kids could conceivably happen to a parent, but that doesn't mean it should be acceptable if it happens to a paid childcarer.

Summersoon · 16/12/2011 21:53

Would second Novstar on instant dismissal. If I were in your situation, I just would not feel able to trust her judgment any more. You say that you absolutely cannot take time off but I think that you really should if you cannot find alternative childcare, e.g. a nursery with short-notice places available. Actually I would try that, lots of people go away at this time of year and they might have temporary openings.
Also, I think that you should talk to your 4 yr-old DD about whether the nanny often leaves her alone, whether she remembers that particular situation and how she felt and impress upon her that she must never allow herself to be left alone like that. Thanks heavens, she didn't fall in but what if she had been snatched while unsupervised?
I am sorry you are facing this hassle just before Christmas. Good luck!

rubyslippers · 16/12/2011 21:56

The trust is gone

rubyslippers · 16/12/2011 21:58

Losing sight of a child or 5 mins near water is a potential tragedy

I have a nanny and you need to be super confident to leave them

The fact she didn't tell you is bad too

magicOC · 16/12/2011 22:36

I'm sorry, but, as a nanny I would have expected a dressing down, told to pack my bags with no notice and reported to OFSTED (if she is registered) and the agency to which I came from (if you used one).

This is a serious lapse of concentration on her part. Everyone loses sight for a few seconds, thats normal, especially if you have another sibbling, BUT, for her to have lost sight and for your daughter to have gotten that far AND into such a serious potential danger, you must address this with her ASAP.

I'm sorry, a child cannot be replaced. This should NEVER have happened.

Thank god everything was ok.

thebigkahuna · 16/12/2011 22:41

Have no experience of having a nanny so can't give advice in employment terms but I, personally, would never let that woman look after my children again.

I would be LIVID! And very grateful to your neighbour for telling me.

magicOC · 16/12/2011 22:44

Not at home so can't check my contract but i would imagine this would def come under gross negligence. Your duty as a nanny is to care and protect the child during work hours. She failed BIG TIME

eurycantha · 16/12/2011 22:55

I would expect to be fired if I did this with one of the children I look after.

levantine · 16/12/2011 23:06

I would sack her. I am fairly relaxed about a lot of things but I never ever take my eyes off my children where there is water anywhere around. I think this is unforgivable - and the fact that she didn't tell you makes it even worse.

MavisG · 16/12/2011 23:08

I think the fact you haven't gelled and that your kids aren't excited to see her is enough to look for a new nanny on its own. The fact she didn't tell you about this incident - which should have frightened her and seemed significant to her - is really damning.

There are great nannies out there. Go find one!

NotTheBlinkingGruffaloAgain · 17/12/2011 00:34

Woah I am really shocked to read this, you need to get to the bottom it first thing in the morning, I hate to say but I think if the trust has gone it is very difficult to move on as normal, I know it will be a massive disruption in the short term but if you're not satisfied with her version of things, then you could sign up with a nanny agency an get s temp nanny until a permanent one comes along, start 2012 as you mean to go on.

lisaro · 17/12/2011 00:42

I am very sceptical. Why would your neighbour feel the need to be in tears while telling you two weeks later?

Liluri · 17/12/2011 00:48

yy, v odd that it took her two weeks to let you know.
also odd that your DD didn't mention anything to you - esp as the neighbour mentioned there being a crowd gathered round and that the nanny told her off.

surely nanny would assume at least one of the 'crowd' would mention the incident to you, and therefore tell you of the incident herself, in order to put her side of the story?

it doesn't ring true at all.

BlueKat · 17/12/2011 03:15

I'm a bit with liluri on this one.

Why wait 2 weeks?
Why be nearly in tears after so long?
If the nanny wasn't in sight, how does anyone know she was chatting with a nanny friend?
Why didn't your dd say something to you?
If your dd was 'leaning backwards' on the wall, she would have been in the water before your neighbour got there.

I think you need to do the sensible thing and discuss this with your nanny ASAP and find out what she has to say - wouldn't this have been a logical first step?

If you're not happy or convinced by her side,then I would be suggesting an amicable parting for you both as it can't be nice for either of you.

If she admits it then I would think grounds for dismissal have been set.

hohohoshedittant · 17/12/2011 03:19

I think you need to speak to the nanny. It's one of those incidents where little facts are really important so you really need more than one persons account of what happened (especially 2 weeks later, details do become blurred).

For example, the time scale is important I think. As someone said, losing sight of a child for 30 seconds can happen to the best of us, especially when there is another child. If it really was 5 minutes then obviously that's different altogether. Also, even if the nanny didn't find your dd for five minutes it doesn't mean she didn't notice her missing for five minutes (of little comfort to you I understand).

If the trust is gone, then you can't leave your children with her. Is she young/inexperienced? It was a colassal mistake, but might be what she needs to show her how important it is to never let them out of your sight. I also think that anyone is capable of making a mistake; no guarantees with anyone.

Does your DD often run off? Does that seem the sort of thing she would do? As far as we know from the OP that is what happened she didn't 'allow' the child near deep water or 'leave her alone' and there is an important difference there. The difference between a mistake and willful negligence.

anewyear · 17/12/2011 09:00

She saw your small child in a potentially lethal situation with no adult about and 'She didnt know wether to tell you ar not', Why on earth not, for goodness sake..!!
Has she been away, so wasnt able to tell you?
I would have been round, as soon as I saw you where in from work.

You really need to have a chat with Nanny and hear her versision of events that day.

Original poster
thinkofthemoney · 17/12/2011 09:04

Thanks for all the responses. As many have said my first step is to talk with our nanny. Obviously I will be doing this but I only received this info last night after she'd left for the weekend .
Those who said it doesn't ring true, I had the same fleeting thought but this neighbour has no reason to lie. It tool her so long to tell us as she wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do (mad I Know).
My dd does remember the incident and it does sound as if she ran off. However that doesn't excuse our nanny not noticing.
Anyway I will speak to our nanny. Problem I'd she is not due back to work until Thursday and I don't see her. It may end up being a telephone conversation which is not ideal or my dh speaking to her alone.
I will keep you updated. Thankyou again.

OP posts:
nannynick · 17/12/2011 09:48

This could well be a Written Warning situation, once you have investigated the facts of the case and seen how your nanny reacts. Your daughter ran off - that's certainly a possibility. What is nanny supposed to do - chain your daughter's legs together whenever they are out so she can't make a dash for it?

Children do run off at times. They can then get themselves in a dangerous situation. The nanny could well be in panic very shortly after the child disappears... one moment the child is next to them looking at whatever they were looking at, then the next moment gone.

Your nanny failed to tell you. That's the problem here I see. Your nanny found your daughter fairly quickly - children can be missing for hours, your witness says 5 minutes. So your nanny did notice. Your nanny may well have not had a firm grip on your daughter at all times but are you expecting your nanny to have that level of control over your daughter? Is having her in reigns at her age suitable?

Put yourself in nannies position - what would you have done? What would you have done differently?

Original poster
thinkofthemoney · 17/12/2011 10:18

Thanks Nannynick, you see this is the thing I ALWAYS watch my children , especially around water. A situation like this simply would not have occurred with me. My dd may well have run off but I would have seen it happen. She ran over 100m by the sounds of it and had to open a very big heavy gate which would have took some time.
But, like you say I need to get the nannies side. I'm really rubbish at these things and am dreading dealing with it but it has to be done.
Question is should I wait until thursday when she is back (she has some days off this week as she has her own childcare issues) or ring her?

OP posts:
edam · 17/12/2011 10:24

I'd call her in to speak to you. Tell her you need to speak to her urgently, face to face. Employers can and do call people in for disciplinary meetings. How DARE she not tell you about this?

MudAndGlitter · 17/12/2011 10:28

I'm glad your DD is ok. I personally wouldn't be able to trust her around my kids after something like this.

hocuspontas · 17/12/2011 10:39

Well 5 minutes could be the nanny frantically looking for her. And she didn't leave her alone near water, the water was 150 yards away through a heavy gate. Get nanny's side and find out why she didn't tell you. She told your dd off because she was shocked and upset I would imagine.

DaisySteiner · 17/12/2011 10:58

I agree that it sounds as though she didn't lose sight of her near water, because it was quite a long way away! She may not have known which way she'd run iyswim and could have been looking for your dd almost immediately. How do you know she'd been talking to a nanny friend when she went missing? Was that assumption on your neighbour's part. Personally I would give a 4 year old a big telling off for running away too! I don't think that is inappropriate.

If she's been with you over a year, you can't just dismiss her, if my understanding is correct. You need to properly investigate what happened and get your nanny's side of the story. I agree that her not telling you is a big deal though. If you really feel that you cannot trust her again then I guess you will have to let her go, but personally I would be considering a final written warning instead, depending on what happens when you confront her.