au pair - stay or sack? Help please.

[busybee33]

Hi ? this is the first time I?ve posted and I was hoping to get some advice from others who have experience of AP?s please.

DH and I both work full time in busy jobs. We have 3 children aged 3, 6 and 10 and we our first AP+ joined us this September via an agency. I think it has been quite disastrous and we?re going to have to ask her to leave!

The AP+ works 30 hours per week, is paid £80/week + £10 mobile/month plus a large room with her own TV/DVD, she shares a bathroom with the 6 year old, we pay the cost of her calls home and she had use of a bike. Her routine is to get the kids dressed for school/nursery and take them to school/nursery. Then she has to pick them up from school/nursery/afterschool activities. Feed them afternoon tea (I was home from work a couple of days last week and my 10 year old asked the AP if the reason they were getting afternoon tea was because I was home!), help them with their homework/spelling, cook them dinner, do their lunchboxes and supervise bathing them. The AP is meant to babysit 2 evenings/week but we?ve only used this about 4 times in 3+ months... we?re too knackered to go out!

We have a cleaner so all she has to do on the ?light housework? side is clean up after herself when cooking, do the dishwasher and put the kids clothes in the washer and hang them out. Although I always end up doing the washing because the AP?s not organised enough to get it on during the week.

She just seems not bothered by the kids or the job. In the 3 months the AP?s been here, the children have been late for school, late for swimming twice, late for an afterschool engagement and worst of all, the AP was late picking up the 10 year old, who waited and in the end went home with a friend and the AP did not know where the 10 year old was for an hour. It took the AP 45 minutes to inform me that the 10 year old was missing and that she was trudging down a main road in the dark with the 3year old and 6 year old because the 6 year old may have known where the 10 year old was! It took us about an hour of going over the sequence of events before the au pair was honest and let us know that the problem was that she was late....again. The AP organises nothing for the children after school (painting, drawing, playing scrabble, taking them to the park etc), despite long discussions on how to do this. I have a menu and she?ll spend 2 hours making shepherd?s pie (I?ve shown her how to do this and she just needs to follow the recipe). She argues with the 10 year old and is constantly shouting at the kids. She?s made the 6 year old cry a couple of times by shouting at her.

We?ve had a sit down chat. We?ve said that being late is unacceptable. We?ve said that we need to see an improvement in the next month or we will have to let her go.... that chat was 4 days before she lost the 10 year old by being late...

The AP had a 2 week handover before starting. She has a detailed document with the children?s schedule, what to put in their lunch boxes, a month-long menu plan with all the recipes in a folder.

Am I expecting too much? If so, what should I expect? All I?m after is a conscientious AP with some common sense and a sense of punctuality. Also how do we find a replacement when we both work full time? The agency doesn?t seem to have anyone decent on their books...

Help please!

PS: sorry, I've just realised how long this rant is!

I think you are expecting far too much from her. However, this:

"AP was late picking up the 10 year old, who waited and in the end went home with a friend and the AP did not know where the 10 year old was for an hour. It took the AP 45 minutes to inform me that the 10 year old was missing."

... would be enough to make me sack her.

Marie, I'm interested in why you think she's expecting too much? Surely school run and post school supervision is normal? And cleaning up after cooking and a bit of washing not unusual? Am
now worried I am working my au pair too hard!

Sorry for hijack, busybee - sounds like it isn't working and I would be v concerned about the lateness given the ages of the children.

The 30 hours your ap does - does she have the children for those 30 hours and have to do the chores (cooking shepherd's pie, children's washing etc) whilst she is in charge of the children? Or have you allowed hours while the children are at school for her to do those jobs. As an experienced nanny I could do all you've listed and entertain the children, but ap's are not experienced nannies and it sounds like quite a lot to juggle with 3 children around.

FWIW I dont think you are expecting too much, this is what we give our AP's (and we have had 4 now). I think some of them are just not used to to type of things we ask them to do and our expectations of them.

We have learned many lessons over the years of having really thorough handbooks, handover periods etc and I work from home most of the time. Our AP at the moment is thoroughly useless and does as little as possible but as my husband keeps reminding me she is only 21!

I think if my AP had lost my 10 year old she would have been shown the door very quickly. I would sit down and go through her duties again, with the schedule and handbook, tell her (again) what your expectations are and then give a timescale for when you want it to improve (a week, 2 weeks etc.). Then tell her you will let her go after this point.

Be fair and kind (we have to remember they are away from home, normally with few people to turn to - we are their family whilst here) and then let her go if you need to.

Im my experience it gets so much easier when you have had 3/4 AP's and you know what you expect and what they expect.

Good luck and I hope it all works out!

Surely school run and post school supervision is normal? Totally, but op has mentioned organising activities rather than just supervision - which is why I wondered if cooking and washing etc would have been done before picking up children.

I think the cooking and washing is a bit too much.

sounds like a completely normal au pair job to me

if she is incapable, then i think you are better off finding a new one. plenty of au pairs manage to do what you require

being late as a one off with good reason (traffic chaos etc) is forgiveable... being consistently late for no valid reason is not IMO

No need for apologies, H&L ? I really do want to know if we?re expecting too much and if that?s the case, I would be interested to know what about the routine is considered too much. After all, if the current AP goes, I?ll need to get another. Nbee: The AP is meant to work 6 hours/day. 5 hours of which are with the kids around ? 1.5 hr before school, 3.5 hours after school. So there?s an hour a day to get other stuff done without them. Also, we?ve said that if she has to cook with the kids around, get the kids involved. The 10 and 6 year olds are pros with a peeler! Also the 'activities' I'm expecting is for the AP to get some colouring or paints out or take the kids to the park. I didn't think this was too rigorous. Thanks for the advice, Aliens. After losing the 10 year old we wanted to sack her immediately but we're stuck until we can find another AP, so we thought we would try to work it out....

You are definitely expecting too much from her, I have less duties in my nanny jobs and had less in my MH job! Do tea, dinner, homework, lunchboxes, bath duties and do their washing? In my MH job I was expected to wash clothes once a week, and cook a meal once a week. I did it more often than that because I enjoyed it and the family were grateful for it. You sound very controlling over it too by the sounds of things (a month long menu plan and recipes? I'd leave if I had no flexibility over food I was expected to prepare). Surely you should be getting your children dressed and she should be helping you? Not having to do it all herself?

Also, I'm assuming she's a young adult, therefore won't be amazing at cooking and still learning, I can see how it takes her two hours to make a shepards pie as it took me that long originally and still takes me a good hour. Remember that you've had years of practice making meals quickly whereas she probably hasn't!

The 6yo crying sounds like a mix between not being 100% sure on how to discipline (not understanding how she sounds when she does) and normal six yo behaviour. My 7yo charge can cry, scream and 'insult' for England when she knows she's done something wrong!

But the thing about the 10yo being missing is disgraceful and worth at least a firm word, though the sacking would be justified.

Arguing with the children and making them cry plus shouting is enough to sack her imo.

Young adult as in mentally young still, recently left home for the first time and it's a scary prospect for anyone.

nbee: That was my thought too, a nanny could be expected to do this, but not an AP.

Aliens: being 21 isn't anything to do with it, it's being young mentally.

OP: An hour is not nearly enough. Also how much time would it take her to get to/from dropping kids off? She'd need time to prepare any activities (printing sheets, getting the area ready and tidying up that area afterwards, the activity itself takes time and would need to be well supervised with a 6yo and 3yo, may even need to be done separately so would take longer, cutting out anything she needs, washing paintbrushes, etc).

It can be a bit daunting to give children equipment like peelers if you're focussing on other things, no matter what the parents say! Imagine if your children got hurt using a veg peeler whilst she was on duty, it's a possibility, and one that has far more impact for the hired childcare than if it happened with you.

Maybe you'd suit an older AP? One with good experience with children (nursery work or similar) and pay a little more possibly?

You are NOT expecting too much. Think you are super organised and just unlucky with this Aupair.
Can you advertise on gumtree? Be thorough in your advert too avoid hundreds of applications,
How much notice do you need to give current one?
Interest in kids is a must and she is not showing this at all.
You have been more than fair.

I was an au pair once and I think you should find a new one. If you've talked it through with her more than once and she is still being late and not doing afternoon tea, it's her work ethic that's at fault and it doesn't sound like it's going to get any better.

That said, I do think it is a bit much to expect a teenager/very young woman to know how to discipline children. She doesn't know them as well as you do and does not have your experience of childcare. A nanny would have the appropriate training and experience if that is what you need.

I look after 2 children and in the 3.5 hours after school (3 hours 10 mins by the time we get in from the school run) I do activities, homework, emptying school bags, cook and serve dinner, put out uniform for the next day and start the bath-time routine (mum takes over when she gets home) and I must admit I'm usually pretty frazzled by the time I go home! So add in that she has a 3rd child and has to do afternoon tea as well as dinner then I can see why it may be a lot for her to contend with.

She should be using the extra hour to get the childrens washing done and make a head start on tea/dinner prep.

The lateness is a big issue and as it's not a one off and she has had a 'talking to' and still lost a 10 year old (without informing you as soon as she realised he was missing ) I think you have good grounds to get rid.

Thanks pixie ? but I was anything but controlling. I gave the AP a folder of recipes and a couple of cookbooks initally. I said these are the kids favourites? cook what you want (the kids aren?t fussy eaters). The month long menu came about when the kids hadn?t had veges for 3 days, there was a fire in the microwave and I came home to the AP feeding the kids toasted cheese sandwiches for dinner. Hence the month long menu evolved.... Think you might be right about the older AP. Also how much is enough?

I think we need some clarification on losing the 10 year old. How late was she? Did he go off with friend after how long? Why did friend's parent not get in touch with you? She should have let you know A LOT more quickly, but no doubt was very, very scared.

I think you are paying her 80quid a week, so you can't expect huge amounts. Anyone who is really, really good (namely, experienced) will be charging a lot more. She is prob young and inexperienced. I am not surprised she shouts a bit and finds 3 kids hard to handle. I do! And I have 'grown' with mine from being babies.

In terms of being late. I think considering the amount of school runs and after school clubs, that 4x isn't bad (if it were 5-10mins. 30 mins is not acceptable). I could easily be late 4x with that much running about!

It depends where you live.

I think you are expecting quite a lot from an AP. Some of them would be able to cope with that, but only if they are experienced. When I was an aupair, "my" kids were exactly the same age as yours and I had similar duties. I found it quite challenging, and I had lived on my own for 2 years by then, so I was used to cooking independently. If she's not used to looking after so many children, I think she must be quite overwhelmed with the job.

I think it sounds quite full on for an AP too. 3 children are hard work, especially one of only 3, and she has to fit in quite a lot after school - 2 meals, lunchboxes as well as activities and homework. Even getting three kids bathed can be quite frazzling. It sounds to me like a part time nanny job to be honest.

I wouldn't expect an au pair to help with homework.
Prepare a snack after school - yes.
Maybe you can do their dinner the night before, or batch cook for the freezer, so she only has to heat it up? Cooking things like shepherd's pie from scratch is too much to expect from an AP.
Lunchboxes - maybe she could empty and wash them out, but you pack the new one.
Dishwasher and some laundry - fine for her to do in the child free hour.

An AP is just a babysitter really, she watches the kids and keeps them safe.

Saying all that though, your current AP doesn't seem to be working out - but you do need to have more realistic expectations for the next one. Or pay for a nanny!

busy: My apologies, when you said month-long menu plan I had to repress a shudder! My own worst nightmare! You seem to have fair reason for doing it.

I'm sorry but I did laugh out loud when I read the fire in the microwave. How did she manage that?!

Thinking about it, the amount you offer is normal, it depends where you are but slightly more than the average might attract older APs. Older APs would probably be more confident and happy with what they're doing, especially with discipline. I say this as somebody who is an advocate of age just being a number.

It's making me think to my MH job, it was an AP position I stumbled across and me being British appealed to the family. I was a brilliant year but I still cringe when I remember how useless I was in the first two months! By the end of it I had a big workload and was coping with it well, but I think that was as much the ages of my two (8 and 11) as it was leniancy I was given in the beginning to learn to cook, shake off the change and get used to responsibility.

Bin her and get a new one.

I would revise down the duties to the bare minimum and once new AP has proven themselves add in extra for extra pay/perks.

The level of detail/guidance you're giving is good BUT if she really needs all that all the time it's too much for her to be coping with. Help in one area is understandable eg cooking new foods but not the kind if micromanagement this one clearly needs.

So whilst you're not expecting too much if a competent experienced au pair you are expecting too much of this one.

It sounds like she isn't coping - but then I'm not sure that many 21 year olds would cope with that amount or responsibility and expectation. You can't be supermum to 3 kids overnight at 21.

I think you should pay for a proper nanny.

I think that in general you are asking her to do normal aupair activities but I think that you may need to rethink a couple of things. My aupair has similar hours and similar responsibilities and i have 3 similarly aged children. I don't get her to cook, I leave Bolognaise for her to heat up and do the pasta, prepare jacket potatoes for her to put in the oven, fish fingers and chips to prepare etc. I don't expect her to do homework with the children, I do it with them when I get in at 7, and they have school dinners so she doesn't do packed lunches and I dont think that I would ask her to either. However, she does drop off and pick up from school and nursery twice a week and I expect the children to be bathed and the house tidy when I get home so that I can go straight into homework, reading and bedtime.

I would have asked her to leave after the lateness episode, it is completely acceptable. I have had a number of au pairs and whilst they have varied in how proactive with the children they are they have all been able to carry out my instructions and to use common sense. I do only go for girls over 24 though and pay £95 a week for 25-30 hours. I think it generally makes a differene.

You pay peanuts ...