au pair - stay or sack? Help please.

[busybee33]

Hi ? this is the first time I?ve posted and I was hoping to get some advice from others who have experience of AP?s please.

DH and I both work full time in busy jobs. We have 3 children aged 3, 6 and 10 and we our first AP+ joined us this September via an agency. I think it has been quite disastrous and we?re going to have to ask her to leave!

The AP+ works 30 hours per week, is paid £80/week + £10 mobile/month plus a large room with her own TV/DVD, she shares a bathroom with the 6 year old, we pay the cost of her calls home and she had use of a bike. Her routine is to get the kids dressed for school/nursery and take them to school/nursery. Then she has to pick them up from school/nursery/afterschool activities. Feed them afternoon tea (I was home from work a couple of days last week and my 10 year old asked the AP if the reason they were getting afternoon tea was because I was home!), help them with their homework/spelling, cook them dinner, do their lunchboxes and supervise bathing them. The AP is meant to babysit 2 evenings/week but we?ve only used this about 4 times in 3+ months... we?re too knackered to go out!

We have a cleaner so all she has to do on the ?light housework? side is clean up after herself when cooking, do the dishwasher and put the kids clothes in the washer and hang them out. Although I always end up doing the washing because the AP?s not organised enough to get it on during the week.

She just seems not bothered by the kids or the job. In the 3 months the AP?s been here, the children have been late for school, late for swimming twice, late for an afterschool engagement and worst of all, the AP was late picking up the 10 year old, who waited and in the end went home with a friend and the AP did not know where the 10 year old was for an hour. It took the AP 45 minutes to inform me that the 10 year old was missing and that she was trudging down a main road in the dark with the 3year old and 6 year old because the 6 year old may have known where the 10 year old was! It took us about an hour of going over the sequence of events before the au pair was honest and let us know that the problem was that she was late....again. The AP organises nothing for the children after school (painting, drawing, playing scrabble, taking them to the park etc), despite long discussions on how to do this. I have a menu and she?ll spend 2 hours making shepherd?s pie (I?ve shown her how to do this and she just needs to follow the recipe). She argues with the 10 year old and is constantly shouting at the kids. She?s made the 6 year old cry a couple of times by shouting at her.

We?ve had a sit down chat. We?ve said that being late is unacceptable. We?ve said that we need to see an improvement in the next month or we will have to let her go.... that chat was 4 days before she lost the 10 year old by being late...

The AP had a 2 week handover before starting. She has a detailed document with the children?s schedule, what to put in their lunch boxes, a month-long menu plan with all the recipes in a folder.

Am I expecting too much? If so, what should I expect? All I?m after is a conscientious AP with some common sense and a sense of punctuality. Also how do we find a replacement when we both work full time? The agency doesn?t seem to have anyone decent on their books...

Help please!

PS: sorry, I've just realised how long this rant is!

The lateness, losing kid and shouting at kids are unacceptable and reason to get rid of her now.

But no way should you be expecting her to rustle up meals from scratch. I am on maternity leave with a five month old and a three year old and my god, whenever I try to do a meal from scratch, things fall apart..

An AP needs to be able to focus on the three kids and involving them in preparing a meal is totally unrealistic...

Either accept that she can feed them fishfingers etc, or leave her things to reheat.

I think it sounds like she is doing too much. The cooking and the washing is beyond the remit of au pairs usually.

I think you need to get a professional live in nanny for the kind of duties you need done.

I think it would be a lot for a parent to do let alone someone with limited experience - on pretty low pay - but losing a child for an hour is really bad

Your expectations are of a nanny, not an AP IMO

Why do they need afternoon tea if they're going to get a cooked dinner? Can't they just grab a snack like any other child? Why don't you and your DH pack up their lunchboxes and prepare their evening meal so your AP just has to heat it up?

You're asking way too much; expecting her to feed them twice after school, supervise homework whilst cooking and organising worthy activities. Maybe your 10 and 6 year old just want to chill in front of the telly/X Box before doing homework.

How many after school activities is AP supposed to ferry them to and from with a 3 year old in tow?

No wonder she gets snappy with them, she's probably frazzled, the poor thing!

On the one hand the episode where your child was lost for some time would be dismissal grounds for me (for most likely anyone!).

However I have very little ground on which to consider whether you should dismiss her. For instance you have made no mention of the culture your AP is from or what age she is. Do you know why she wanted the job with you? What is her English like? If her English is poor and she's homesick or overwhelmed by what may be very different household standards/routines compared to her own family experiences. If this is her first, or second job ever in her life and she's never been away from home whilst trying to navigate a new language and culture then I think perhaps her behaviour may be due to being confused rather than incompetent. Of course there's loads of teenagers who are less keen on working, whatever the job, and you may have a girl on a form of "gap year".

Just make sure you consider whether her problems in your family are due to her having problems adjusting. It may be that it is better for her leaving your family. That would let you and your dh consider whether you want more professional care, such as by a nanny or childminder rather than try your luck with AP's again.

We still don't know what happened when the child was 'lost'. Did the child wait for 10mins and then say, "Right I'm going home with my friend because I've been dying to go back to his house for ages." Or was she 30mins late and the friend's parent said, "Come back to ours and ring your Mum." I just don't understand how that situation escalated in that way.

I would say you have two different issues here.

Firstly - being late & loosing the child - this to me is huge and would be the deciding factor, as merrymarigold mentions though, I would want to discover how it happened and what the agreement OP has with the child about emergencies.

Secondly - if OP decides they can work through the 'lost' episode or goets another au-pair+, there needs to be some reduction in expectations. Food from scratch everyday is a huge expectation. Pizza, fish fingers, some pasta with a stir-in sauce I would consider reasonable, bag of pre-cut carrot sticks to dump on the side if you are worried about veggie intake.

I think the other duties are reasonable, and expecting them to be on time is certainly standard. But I would definitely draw the line at the food.

I think you would be lucky to find an au pair who could cope with doing what you've described for three children of those ages. Two, yes, or three children who were older (like with the starting age of your children 6 or 7) would be doable. I can see why she's struggling to cope.

1. Yes she needs to be on time and know where the children are at all times. This is a basic thing and if she can't cope with that forget it.

2. Scale back the fresh meal preparation. I don't think you can expect her to prepare a shepherd's pie AND do all the other stuff you need. She CAN be expected to do something like throw a couple pieces of chicken in the oven to bake, potatoes on for mash, and likewise a veg. Things need to be MUCH simpler on this front.

3. Help with homework - yes, APs have to be able to do this to keep the show on the road.

4. Be tolerant about tidying - the house won't be perfect when you come in.

5. Bath every night? Really? Can you not do this a couple of nights per week? Or maybe twice per week/once at the weekend (exposes hygeine habits here.)

6. Organising trips to the park/a walk/colouring is fine. Then get her onto the homework. You need her to focus on the prorities.

Can you definitely not help with the lunchboxes/have them get a lunch at school at all a couple of times per week? OR:

Instead of getting your children to help with the dinner preparations, could they not help by getting their clothes out and the lunchboxes? Otherwise you might need to help a bit.

FWIW we have a nanny and an au pair after school for various reasons looking after only two children on two of the days. And we still have fishfingers made!!! Our nanny is very experienced too.

Three kids to get out the door in the morning would test an experienced nanny/mum on some many days.

you need to think about giving this girl, or whatever ap you get, some help. I know it would be easier for you to have one person doing it all but realistically at this price point I don't think you're going to get it, having three kids.

Having slept on it, I really think you are asking too much of an AP, especially with three children inc. a 3yo. Her routine sounds like a mum's, not an au pair's. If you need someone to do more than babysit, taxi and do some light housework (i.e. not do all the cooking, lunchbox-making, laundry etc.) then you need a nanny. A reasonable task list for an au pair would be:

Take children to school/nursery.
Vacuum and dust children's rooms once or twice a week.
Clean children's and shared bathroom once or twice a week.
Wash and dry children's clothes.
Pick children up from school/nursery, give them a snack and take them to after-school activities, the park or home.
Empty rubbish out of lunchboxes and leave on the side.
Give them a simple tea/dinner/whatever you call it that is either throw in the oven or heat up and add pasta/rice/potatoes.
Get them started on their homework.
Babysit one evening a week.

The following should be done by you or a nanny:

Wake children up and get them ready in the morning.
Make packed lunches.
Do full laundry.
Prepare and run structured activities after school.
Prepare a mid-afternoon meal.
Prepapre tea from scratch.
Help with homework.
Discipline children.
Bathe children.
Babysit two evenings a week.

The AP is probably feeling overwhelmed and homesick and it sounds like she is scared of you. I would gently get rid and re-think your childcare arrangements.

realistically the AP will probably need to be able to do more than just start on the homework.

The parents may leave too early in the morning to help get them all ready every day.

AP will need to be able to cope with a bit of disciplining too, it can't all wait until the parents come home.

I think an AP can do some of what AKMD puts on the list for nanny just not night after night and the OP needs to be tolerant about the outcome.

We don't have much detail about the AP but if English isn't her first language then I could see that helping with homework would be hard. Even if it is her first language, it would be hard work to help one child with their homework while also keeping a 3yo happy.

If the older children are fairly independent and can get themselves up, dressed, breakfasted, bag packed for school and their teeth brushed then she could get the 3yo ready. If she has to run around after all 3 and make packed lunches then it's too much.

If she has to cook from scratch, do homework, bathe children and make packed lunches in the evening then that is also too much and she probably hates the OP because she has no free time on weekday nights. Add into the mix having to do proper activities with 3 fairly young children after school and she is probably packing her bags as we speak.

If she has to do all that and is scared of the OP telling her off for missing something out or not doing it up to her standard then she is probably stressed up to her eyebrows and a misbehaving child would make her snap. She is not their parent and isn't very old.

Some of the 2nd list, some of the time to help out in an emergency would be acceptable.

Agree OP has to compromise. We also don't know if AP has any previous childcare experience.

The homework for the older ones would be important to ME personally but it would be fine for the 3 year old to watch TV whilst she supervised it. IYSWIM.

Baths NOT every night. Much less elaborate meals. Light touch on the cleaning and children's laundry. Parents get clothes out and do packed lunches to lighten her morning load - help getting kids dressed if they can.

That sort of thing.

(Puts a shout out for Squiffy.)

Like most of the others, I'm going to say that there is nothing there that on its own is unreasonable, but put it all together for three children and you are definately asking too much. Decide what is most important to you within the routine that you have established (how did you achieve this before? FT daily nanny? Stay At Home Parent?) and compromise on other things. I would start with the things that you can do in the evening (bathing children, making lunches) or weekend (pre-cook meals for reheating from fridge/freezer).

You also need to think about recruitment (assuming you plan to get rid of this one, although it may be that with duties that she can cope with the lateness and apparent disorganisation goes away). In My Experience 20% of APs can cope with anything and come up smiling, 60% are OK and 20% are hopeless. If you need one of the top 20% you need to work out (i) how you can identify them (be very selective on CVs/background and have them for a trial weekend) and (ii) how you can attract them to your job rather than one that pays more AND has better accommodation AND is in a more attractive place AND has lighter duties etc. This takes time and effort so it is not ideal to put yourself in the situation of needing someone urgently.

Final thing to think about - what will happen in the school holidays?

U are asking too much. My experience with AP currently on no 8 I think is they can't cook and hate cleaning.

Packed lunch , organise bags , take to school yes
Washing, hanging up, ironing essentials yes
Cooking rubbish, cleaning rubbish
Doing home work mmmmm pretty rubbish
Playing, bath time yes
Tidy kids rooms yes

Look on aupair-world.net if u want a new one. Ditch any cooking however loosing my dc because was late collecting is gross misconduct in my contract and I would dismiss

I agree with the majority that you are asking too much.

I don't think homework help should be a necessity (after all, most au pairs need help with their English - would you really entrust your children's marks to someone who may not understand the instructions?), nor should bathing 3 small children.

Au pairs absolutely can:
Dress children (nice if parents can do the waking, but suppose that could also be done by AP)
Simple breakfast
School run
Children's laundry
Children's rooms
Snack after school (which should be something like toast / fruit / piece of cheese, nothing needing preparing)
Colouring / park / puzzles BUT that should be all she has to do after the snack, she shouldn't be doing that then rushing to prepare a meal also
Reheating / bunging in oven some supper already perpared
Emptying lunchboxes, but not re-packing them

The hour extra per day should be used for laundry and cleaning of the children's rooms, or running the dishwasher.

Bathing & cooking are nanny duties, IMO, as is homework help.

Look for another au pair. We have had 7 au pairs so far and it has been a learning curve.
I don't think you expect too much from your au pair. One thing you need to accept that things won't always get done the way you would like them, but repeated lateness is unacceptable.
I think a lot of things can be forgiven if an au pair genuinely enjoys being around your kids - and more crucially if your kids love being with the au pair.
But sometimes it just doesn't work out

my advice for your new au pair
Don't go via an agency, go via the au pair world website; that way you can explain in full detail what you expect from your au pair; I always write a - potentially - scary letter, ie no visitors, don't use living room in the evening, eat with the kids and not with my husband and me; clean bathroom sink once a day, sweep kitchen floor daily - it's always easier to relax rules, than to try and go stricter once your au pair is with you.
Make sure you put the washing on - that way the au pair only needs to hang it up and put it away.

We had one au pair whose English simply wasn't good enough to help with homework (my children are bi-lingual, so communication wasn't a problem); if you get back too late to help with homework, then say so right from the start and make sure your au pair's English is good enough.

We have had mostly wonderful au pairs (we had to let 1 go and didn't renew another au pair's contract), and I found that communication is the most important aspect - tell them in detail what you expect from them the second you first get in contact with them - one au pair might be happy with the arrangement, another one might find it outrageous.
maybe your current au pair had totally different expectations right from when she started with you.
we had one au pair who was ok, we only needed an au pair for 3 months and I thought she was fine for that time period, but certainly wouldn't have wanted her to stay any longer. After she finished with us, she moved to our friends who absolutley loved her and she stayed for 18 months with them - a perfect au pair for one family might not work for another.
Try and find a new au pair as soon as possible, maybe arrange some emergency child care in the meantime. let your current au pair know about your plans.
There is nothing worse than being at work and wondering if your children are well looked after and are safe. Best of luck!

Your AP's repeated lateness is a good enough reason for dismissal. You have warned her, and she clearly hasn't taken this in - it won't get better, and it will cause more tension.

APs and families all vary - what works for one, may not for the other. Viktoria makes an excellent point about the importance of good communication. I believe in addition to that, making your expectations clear and being honest at interview stage, and in the first few days is key. It is far easier to relax rules later.

I think one thing you may need to bear in mind is that you expect your AP to mind your youngest too. 3yo need a lot of supervision, and I expect most APs would find juggling this, along with everything else quite tough, especially if they have not had similar experience. The language barrier would make it tougher.

In general I don't think what you are expecting your AP to do is unreasonable as such - but perhaps you could consider relaxing certain standards, or being very specific about when the AP is supposed to be doing certain tasks, and remembering that the AP may not be able to multi-task. Some people are not good at using their initative or time management - more so if they are young too. You could ask AP to do cooking/laundry/tidying/whatever during her childfree hour, then when she has the dcs, that between x and y time = maealtime,a and b time is playtime, c and d time is bathtime etc etc. Also bear in mind that AP may not be able to help with homework or cooking a meal from scratch, if she is also supposed to be minding your 3yo and 6yo.

IME, have found that each AP is different and each can cope with things differently. eg My last 19 yo AP would have done everything you expect - and more - yet another of my previous 22 yo AP could not have done half as much. However, they all had a good relationship with the children and were reliable with them - and for me this is the most important factor.

I hope you have better luck next time. A bad AP can make a good learning experience. There are some great APs out there - but sometimes it really is a lottery as to who you end up with.

I also have to agree with Jules - most APS dislike cooking and cleaning. I don't think you can actually get an AP who is great at childcare + cleaning/tidying + cooking - but I do think that you can get APs who are useless at all three . You have to decide what is more important for you and compromise on the other areas.