CM's - can you ell me how many children you're allowed to look after at one time?

[IwishIwasmoreorganised]

I've just received a text from our cm saying that she has had an out of the blue inspection today and been told that she's over her numbers and so can no longer have our 2 ds's!

She has been looking after them since the end of August!!

How many children, and of what ages are cm's legally allowed to care for at any one time?

Does depend on whether she has her own children but normally is one child under one two other children not yet old enough for school and three children school age til age 8 after age 8 they don't restrict unless care is affected for younger children. Childminders may be able to get variations though so for example I can have two babies under one.

Any children she has will mean her numbers are restricted based on their ages so if she has a three year old she will only be allowed two children not yet old enough for school.

oh dear

if she was overminding then she can't have been offering optimum care to the children there, and would have invalidated her insurance, too

did she show you her Ofsted reg cert (should really be on display) recording how many children at any one time?

My 2 are 3 and 6

She also looks after an 8 month old, an 18 month old, a 6 year old an 8 year old and her own daughter who is 9.

I didn't see her ofsted reg cert. Daft really. I saw lots of other paperwork but not that.

My certificate says 'No more than 5 under 8, of which no more than two of these may be in the Early Years group, and no more than one of these may be under 1'

So - 5 children under 8 in total, two of those 5 can be under school age, and one of those two can be under 1.

I have a 19 month old myself, so she is in addition to these numbers which means I can legally look after up to 6 children at once.

Ofsted can change these numbers if they agree a variation request though.

so

an under 1, an 18 month old, a 3 year old, 2 x 6 year olds an 8 yr old and a 9 yr old

not over numbers under normal circs

a very small house? little or no garden? (not that I have heard of no garden being a limiting factor for numbers)

a bit odd tbh, unless there were other children there within the hours that you drop off and collect that you don't know about

hmmm

okay

on your paperwork somewhere should be a number, it might start with the letters EY, like EY 12345678; input that number into the ofsted website

input into the top right box titled ''enter search text''

NB obv don't put the number on here, just see if you can pull up details/a report, should show how many DCs she is registered for and what ages she can care for

So she has:
1 child under 1
3 children under 5
6 children under 8

I'd have thought that was OK as her own daughter is 9, but it does depend on what is on her certificate.

yep, Fliss

Can't find an EY number.

Does it make any difference that we're in Wales?

Search on here - you can look her up by postcode (providing she's the only one in her particular postcode, should be ok, they only cover 15 houses or so!)

ah, right, sorry

I ALWAYS forget to ask are you in England

No idea about Welsh regulator

As a penance I'll have a google for you

ah, FLiss got there

Similar rules in Wales - up to 6 children under 8, of which 3 may be under 5 and of these 2 can be under 18months.

There won't be an EY number and I'm pretty sure that Welsh cms aren't searchable but I may have got that wrong.

ah, yes, Mogs, non-searchable acc to the CSSW website

sorry, Iwish, no further forward

I know her registration number and Local CSSIW office.

Don't know whether to focus my attention on figuring out if she is over her numbers or trying to sort out an alternative!!

DS2 was a pita before 1/2 term and she was away last week. I'm wondering if she's had enough of ds2. If that's the case though she should give us 4 wek snotice as the contract states. Need to know her numbers really though before I jump to any conclusions

well yes, I did wonder if she was trying to pull some kind of stunt; the numbers you have given us seem okay

hmmmm

I just wish she would talk to me!!

If she has got a problem with ds2 then ok, but at least give us the proper notice if she's not willing to try to work it out.

AFAIK she should have her certificate up on display for anyone to see (if CCSIW's rules are like Ofsted's) so you can always pop in tomorrow and just ask to have a quick look. Tell her it's so you know what to look out for/ask about on other CMs certificates in the future.

I thought it sounded a bit dodgy, but she could be right and have a reduced number on her certificate. Or the inspector could have been mistaken (which could happen!)

how unprofessional of her to act this way, disgusting.

i am registered for 4 a day as have Ofsted variation as 2 were under 1 at same time but were siblings.

ofsted are very good at allowing variations so there is never an excuse for overminding.

i agree her numbers seem ok, dont pay her of course but you have a right to your notice period, dig out your contract.

please dont tar all cms with her brush, how annoying and awful for you to have to deal with this.

Maybe she's been asked to mind some other children and wants a quick 'out' with you so that she can take the others on immediately :(

Those numbers sound low, I doubt many CM's would mind less than that or they might as well be a nanny without the ofsted bloody hassle.

Why not ring her now and ask what's on her registration form?

It's only very recently that CSSIW cms have to display their certificate. When I registered last year, it just had to be available for parents to look at. Also, at my inspection in July it was the same but I have just been given a variation and received my new certificate 2 weeks ago and the letter that came with it said I now needed to have it displayed.

Also, when I registered, I asked to be registered to look after 3 children only - I now realise that was really pointless and I have since asked them to increase it. My point is that she may not be registered for the maximum amount of children.

CSSIW have some strange rules that have taken a bit of getting used to having been registered with Ofsted previously.

I hope you get the situation sorted.

thebody - I'm not sure whether it's a CSSIW thing or whether it's down to my local inspectors but apparently they're not very generous when it comes to granting variations (departure of conditions' is it's official name here).

When I put in a request recently they asked for so much information. I filled in a 6 page application form then had a 20 minute phone conversation with the inspector putting my case across.

Thebody - I didn't mean that to sound like I'm justifying the overminding, I'm not. I just meant that there are many differences between ofsted and cssiw.

I won't tarr all cm's with the same brush but I'm really hacked off atm. We've had a very bad track record with cm's and I really don't understand why!

Our first CM(1) took on ds1 as her first ever mindee (when he was 3) and said that she would make his school her main pickup as we were the first people to register with her. Move on 12 months just before he was due to go full time and she said that she would be unable to pick him up when he went full time and gave us a months notice.

We were really keen to get ds1 settled with a particular cm(3) but she had no vacancies so found someone who seemed lovely and he started with her (CM2). Unfortunately she wasn't great with discipline and his behaviour started to suffer, so when we had a call out of the blue from cm3 saying that one of her families were moving away so she had a vacancy for ds1 we jumped at the chance and moved to her last October

DS2 was due to start with cm3 this September. He had been in and out of her house for the past 11 months picking up ds1 so didn't need a lot of settling in but when I took him round to play with her for an hour the week before school started cm3 dropped the bombshell that she had decided to retire and therefore not renew her registration which ran out in 5 days time!!

CM3 recommended CM4 (the current one) who luckily had vacancies (or so she thought!!!) so both ds's started with her in September.

Now she says that she's over her numbers................

I'd dearly love to speak to her tonight but she's not answering her phones (mobile or home) and didn't answer the door when I went round about 7.45pm (I know it's Halloween but I'm still annoyed).

oh that is real run of awful bad luck

Yes, so now I'm questionning what I'm doing to our ds's by putting them (well ds1 so far) through so many changes and wondering if it's really worth trying to work (which I am professionally qualified to do and which I enjoy).

Surely there must be some lovely, reliable cm's in our area who are aware of the numbers that they are allowed to care for and who can pick up from our ds's (small school?)

If not then my job's going to have to go. (unfortunately I will have to give 3 months notice so that doesn't help our current predicament!)