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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM has just bought a puppy WWYD?

74 replies

LucyLastik · 24/09/2011 16:31

We have been using a CM since DS was 6 months old. At the time he started going, there were no dogs involved.

DD2 started to go too this year. She is 16 months atm. This week, our lovely CM has bought a puppy. I'm really uncomfortable about it tbh. If she had had the puppy when we were looking for childcare, no way would I have considered using her. The trouble is, we have become great friends over the last 3 years and DH and I consider her a part of our family. There was very little notice of the puppy. A friendly, yet pushy phonecall on one day and then the dog was there the next, with no time to really think about it or to discuss with DH.

I'm really upset about it. So far, CM seems unbothered that we may remove our children (they make up 50% of her business).

WWYD?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Original poster

LucyLastik · 25/09/2011 14:47

100% positive. The puppy is 5 weeks old, the CM commented that they are not usually parted from the mother until 8 weeks. Apparently the mother rejected it and that's why they have it earlier than the recommended 8 weeks.

It has been to the vet for some antibiotics (not sure what for) and worming treatment. Not sure about vaccinations.

OP posts:

wellwisher · 25/09/2011 14:53

YANBU OP - regardless of whether you'd want your dcs around a dog, she should have given you fair warning.

Posters who refer to getting a dog as "extending the family" and compare it to the CM having a baby are clearly crazy dog people who aren't going to consider this issue in a reasonable way. It is nothing like the CM having a baby! You'd get more than a day's notice of that , and more importantly, in this case the CM is changing the minding environment in a way that COULD put the dcs at risk of harm. It's more like if the CM or another adult in the house had taken up smoking, or if a relative with a criminal record had moved in. Maybe you can negotiate a reduced notice period?

I'm also inclined to think that someone who would take a puppy from its mother at only 5 weeks of age :( is unlikely to be a very responsible dog owner, and therefore I wouldn't trust them to keep the puppy safely around 4 small children. I'm thinking of the puppy's wellbeing too - they need lots of attention, don't they? It just sounds like the CM has been irresponsible and selfish all round.

MindtheGappp · 25/09/2011 14:53

That would explain why the childminder did not give you more notice. It was an emergency adoption.

Original poster

LucyLastik · 25/09/2011 14:56

I don't think it was MindtheGappp. The woman who they got it from was round there 2 days ago asking if they knew of anyone else who wanted one from the same litter.

OP posts:

bemybebe · 25/09/2011 15:10

"I'm also inclined to think that someone who would take a puppy from its mother at only 5 weeks of age is unlikely to be a very responsible dog owner, and therefore I wouldn't trust them to keep the puppy safely around 4 small children."

Agree. There is also dog's safety issue here, there is a lot of damage 4 small children can do to a small puppy.

There is more here than meets the eye. OP says she trusts her CM 100%, yet gets only a "drunken" phonecall about the dog. The puppy at 5 weeks will require a lot more attention than an 8 week old (and it is already a hard work if you ask me). Why the breeder let it go so early? Good breeder would care for the litter themselves. This strongly smells of a puppy farm to me... another check against an irresponsible dog owner for me.

I would be taking my child away from her actually. Sounds like CM does not respect the parents and does not have dog's interests at heart. I may be wrong of course.

bemybebe · 25/09/2011 15:11

"I don't think it was MindtheGappp. The woman who they got it from was round there 2 days ago asking if they knew of anyone else who wanted one from the same litter."

Well, this is bloody puppy farming and irresponsible dog owner. Confirmed.

wellwisher · 25/09/2011 15:15

Yes, absolutely bemybebe - by "keep the puppy safely" I meant that the poor wee puppy could also be at risk!

I'm not a dog person, but am sure the dog lovers on here would not deal with a rejected puppy by giving it away at 5 weeks to someone with a houseful of tinies and apparently no experience with dogs :(

bemybebe · 25/09/2011 15:19

"I'm not a dog person, but am sure the dog lovers on here would not deal with a rejected puppy by giving it away at 5 weeks to someone with a houseful of tinies and apparently no experience with dogs"

Absolutely not. The responsible thing in emergency would be to ask rescue for a help or/and arrange emergency foster care. Not go around the neighbourhood flogging the poor mites to unchecked homes. Vile.

bemybebe · 25/09/2011 15:20

"Absolutely not" = agree with you wellwisher.

Saggyoldclothcatpuss · 25/09/2011 15:31

I think she has every right to buy a dog if she wants one. If you dont like the idea, find another one. Good childminders are in short supply, and places are quickly filled. Im sure she wont suffer.

Original poster

LucyLastik · 25/09/2011 16:12

That's the last thing I want her to do Saggy, and if you have read everything I have said, you will see that I have agreed that she has every right to buy a dog. Thanks for your input anyway.

OP posts:

leeloo1 · 25/09/2011 16:37

I don't like dogs, but can see the benefit to DS of being around them and not sharing my fears (am currently trying my best not to show him my fear of spiders!).

Your CM will have to have done a written risk assessment of how she will manage the risk of the new puppy, so in the first instance you should contact her and ask for a copy of this, then you could read it through before your meeting with her.

As you've used her for a long time and have built up a good relationship with her then hopefully you'll be able to discuss your worries with her and she will be able to reassure you by telling you how she'll mitigate any risk. Also, if you're afraid of dogs, (but are happy for the DC to be around the dog for short, supervised periods) then you could ask the dog is kept locked up at drop-offs/pick-ups etc. Once she's let you know how she'll deal with the risks then you can be able to feel confident in continuing to use her service.

If you don't feel confident that she can keep them apart as much as you wish, or about any other aspect of it then you can give your written (4 weeks?) notice, at which point the puppy will be 9ish weeks old and still relatively safe (from your perspective) to be around.

Karoleann · 25/09/2011 18:53

Its a dog.....it has teeth......personally I would leave. All dogs have the capacity within them to act unsafely, your CM could never 100% vouch for the dog's behaviour as its a dog.
I'm be very suprised if a court case went against you for not paying out notice.

nooka · 25/09/2011 19:22

I would have thought a five week old pup would need a lot of specialist support as it is way too young to be away from it's mum. I'm guessing that the CM was suckered to this. So I don't think she was irresponsible, just naive and soft hearted. I suspect that the reason for the no notice is that this was a snap decision more than anything else. But that doesn't change the fact that it's not an appropriate home for the puppy, or that if the OP is unhappy she has every right to look elsewhere. And that perhaps that is the best thing if the CM really wants to do her best by this pup then four young children (I think this is right) will not leave enough time to look after the puppy properly.

I also wonder what sort of prognosis the pup has in any case if it's come from a poor home and then been separated from it's mother so early and not looked after by someone who really knows what they are doing (lots of assumptions there of course).

Original poster

LucyLastik · 25/09/2011 19:48

Just to clarify with the number of children, 2 of the children are mine, but there are 2 other families who use her, one with children aged 6 and 15 months and the other family's dd is 3 yo.

Nooka, you've hit the nail on the head:"naive and soft hearted" that's exactly what she is. She is genuinely lovely and I am concerned that this will be the end of our friendship but I think I am pretty much decided that we will give notice, which I am really sad about tbh.

The fact of the matter is that I don't feel she will be able to closely monitor the puppy and it's many and varied needs, whilst simultaneously caring for up to 5 small children, which in turn has the potential to lead to accidents; accidents which could be avoided by DH and I removing the (admittedly very small) risk. As DH pointed out, we would not be fulfilling our roles as parents if we purposely leave our children in a potentially dangerous situation.

OP posts:

MindtheGappp · 25/09/2011 20:03

We got our puppy two days after our au pair started. I thought we should have warned her, but DH was gung-ho about getting the dog there and then.

A puppy spends most of the day asleep or being stroked (or in my dog's case, chewing iPod cables, passports and shoes). The interaction with people is all very jolly.

A dog does not spontaneously bite their 'family'. If they don't care for little people, they will give them a wide berth.

I think it is worth listing all the objections and then dealing with these. The realistic ones are biting, poo, and toddler access to dog food. I really don't think biting is a problem with good breeds and 'family', and hygiene is easily managed. Jumping and knocking over a small child is something that can be trained against and isn't a problem with a very young puppy.

nooka · 25/09/2011 20:16

I hope that you can manage to find a way to keep the friendship Lucy. I think that it sounds lie a potential recipe for disaster to be honest. Most people would not recommend a puppy to someone (with no previous experience) with one small child let alone someone looking after five! A puppy is rather like a baby and a toddler rolled into one and requires lots of input in the first few months as there is so much that needs to be got right when they are little. I'd not be worried so much about your children's safety directly, more the CM's sanity with the accidents, and the nipping and the how do you walk a pup at the same time as children etc etc. I'm sure it can be done, but it wouldn't be at all easy.

MindtheGappp · 25/09/2011 20:29

Having had a puppy with five children, I would say that your assertions are nonsense, Nooka. A puppy will fit into the family. Dogs are very subservient.

malovitt · 25/09/2011 21:02

"If they don't care for little people, they will give them a wide berth"

The puppy which nipped my son in the face with no warning, causing a scar which is still evident 15 years later, obviously didn't!

Original poster

LucyLastik · 25/09/2011 21:03

Malovitt, this is obviously one of the things that concerns me the most.

OP posts:

MindtheGappp · 25/09/2011 21:24

Was this puppy part of the family?

nooka · 25/09/2011 21:26

I base my assertions on the frequent threads in the doghouse. Most people find puppies hard work. We found our puppy hard work and our children were 8 and 9. The interaction was not very 'jolly' when he was whizzing around and nipping everyone, and that is fairly typical puppy behaviour, at least for a few weeks.

As I said before, an experienced dog person would know whether and how they would manage, and I am sure that some people do make it work very well. But it doesn't sound as if the CM planned to take on a very very young puppy, so I think the OP's concerns are very valid. I'm impressed that the CM does such an obviously good job with a six year old, two three year olds, a toddler and a baby, I do think adding a puppy to that mix is at least potentially taking on too much. I doubt that there will be any danger, I just think there might be a lot of stress.

Original poster

LucyLastik · 25/09/2011 21:34

I don't know Mind.

OP posts:

malovitt · 25/09/2011 22:47

The puppy was part of someone's family, yes. They had had it for about six weeks and they had two small children of their own.

We were visiting, son sitting quietly on the floor with a toy car, minding his own business, puppy trotted over all soppy looking and bit him on the cheek.

PLEASE don't tell me it doesn't happen out of the blue and for no reason - it does.

(Luckily ds is still very handsome)

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