advice from nannys and employers pls - 1st aid course fee and time off?

[SparklyMily]

Hi, sorry if this has been done before, just want to check I am being fair. My nanny needs to renew her 1st aid qual and is asking me if she needs to take time in the week from her holiday entitlement and who should pay for the training.

I am just about to pay for the renewal of her ofsted reg as I see that as my responsibility since I get the financial saving.

My initial view is that she needs to pay for the 1st aid refresh as she needs that for her insurance to be valid and to be employable as a nanny, but that I am happy she doesn't take the time as holiday

does that seem fair? What are your experiences of this?

Sounds very fair -depending on how much it was, I would probably contribute to the cost too.

Maybe go halves?

I`ve always done mine on a saturday.

The 12 hours First Aid a bit expensive then 6 hours and she doesn't need to do 12 hours for her insurance. But if you still want her to be Ofsted registered, which they will require 12 hours then I think you should pay the remaining as it will benefit you not her. In terms of time off again half?

thanks for the suggestions. I have asked her if she can find a course to fit in with when I am on hols anyway (that she doesn't have to take from her allowance), or some options a bit further out that my mum could come and stay to cover. Have also asked her to let me know the prices - I agree that if she has to do a longer course for the ofsted, then me paying the difference (which could well be half anyway) is fair

I would give the time, but would not pay for the course. If she was an au pair I would pay for the course. But a nanny, I feel, should be a professional and already in posession of the qualification. That's why she make so much more money than an au pair.

As a nanny I pay for training myself and do it outside of work time.

We all do things differently. If you want to help towards the cost, then letting your nanny do the course on work days (which fit with what you can cover) is a good deal I feel for the nanny.

courses near me are either evenings or weekends. have u checked this out then she wouldnt have to have time off. I pay for my first aid and for my insurance, my employers pay for the ofsted renewal. I dont think you should have to pay for her to get first aid, she needs it in her job its not you specifically asking her to do something extra.

Some 6 hour ones are suitable for OFSTED. As a nanny I expected to pay my own 1st Aid. As an employer (well, nearly) I'd happily top up the cost to a 12 hour for example and give the time but I'd expect any decent professional nanny to maintain the status they had when I employed them, so if I employ a nanny with a 1st Aid I expect them to keep it current.

my bosses gave me the time off (when i should have been working) and paid for the first aid course for me. Also paid the ofsted fee, but i already had insurance that I paid for anyway.Had it for years before ofsted required it!

based on previouse threads i think i was very lucky!

Sparkly,
I just did my first aid refresher last weekend through Tigerlily childcare. It was on a Saturday and cost £105, did it with 3 other friends who paid for themselves too. I would have not dreamt asking my employer paying for it as it is and it was when I came for interview a requirement for my job as a nanny. I back Frakyouveryverymuch, as a professional nanny you need to keep up with your trainings and should pay for it. My employers only pay for Ofsted renewal, I pay for insurance and first aid.

it's difficult isn't it? She has worked for me since Feb last year (Frak and Nick and others may vaguely recall me under a different name when I was posting about my rubbish 1st nanny I employed Jan last year after my XH walked out.....got 8 days work out of her in nearly 2 months....) and is fab, I want to make sure I am very fair to her as I know how hard it is to get a good nanny and also I value massively what she does - I couldn't hold down my job or my life for that matter without her. That said, I am also looking at her payrise and bonus (waiting to see how generous I can be depedning on what I get myself in my company's pay/bonus round next month and do feel i am generous in that regard. The biggest pain tbh is getting the cover for the time off - my leave only just stretches so if I can't wheel in my mum then it becomes quite a challenge....

anyway, she is going to send me the details later today of the various dates coming up, fees etc

The dates I was looking at always fall on the Saturday and Sunday. Have a look at St John's amulance website as well, I did their 12hr first aid before.

I too did the tigerlily 6 hr one which is OFSTED approved and is done on a Saturday, not sure where you are but they do them in the south east and london, not sure about the rest of the country.

St johns 12 hour one which is the OFSTED one does do weekday ones, but they also do saturday ones, where it is done over two sats in a row.

most courses are on a saturday

as a nanny i feel you should be up to date with first aid but many nannies i know including myself only have the 6hr one day course as we are not ofsted registered, so i feel that the employer should pay th difference from one day to two day course

My nanny did the one day Tigerlily course on a saturday. I wouldn't have given the time off for her to do it during the week as that would be a massive inconvenience and expense to me, being frank. I did pay for the course as well as her yearly OFSTED fee. She did cheekily ask me to pay the insurance and I told her no with the following reasons - 1. it would invalidate the insurance 2. it is a condition of her employment (in her contract) that she is professionally insured and 3. I thought I was already being generous with paying the first aid fee and ofsted fee so she was taking the p*ss.

I suppose I've mostly paid for mine but some long term parents have said they would pay and I sort of think they should. Now I mention at interviews that I expect them to go halves if I do the 12 hour one.
I have always done it outside work hours and was surprised on my recent course that more than half of the people doing the course were being paid for both days (Fri/sat), like a normal work/training day. It came up when we were introducing ourselves. Not all were nannies but many were and I did wonder at the childcare implications to have the nanny away.

I pay for my own insurance but really in other jobs the insurance is paid by the employer. Self employed people only pay for their own insurance.

I too intend to ask my next employer to pay towards my first aid, Registration and Insurance. I too feel that the insurance should be down to the employer as nannies are not self employed.

Nannies are in an atypical position though - with most employees if they're sued for something it's not their employer bringing the suit! Most employers have vicarious liability for the actions of their employees but those kinds of claims where the nanny is acting on the employer's behalf aren't what nanny insurance is protecting you from.

So nannies have to pay their own insurance as it's to protect them from claims their employer could bring or they may bring against their employer and it may invalidate the insurance if it was the employer who had paid. I say may because I don't think it's ever been tested but I wouldn't want to be the one to try!

I don't think nannies are unique in this respect but many people have insurance through a professional body.

so, thanks for the pointer to the Tigerlily site, that was really helpful as none of the others we looked at seemt to do Saturdays in our area. Nanny is happy to do a Saturday and I have said that I will pay half. I did point out that she needs it to be employable and that some employers would not expect to pay. I said I had been on here (she knows my MN addiction ) and had a variety of views! Turns out she is very short this month because of being a bridesmaid next weekend, costs of all that, plus car costs that came in a couple of weeks ago. This is where I find it difficult....she is part of the family these days, and lovely to have around. But my work head (and a bit of my mum head!) says, those costs are not my problem and I shouldn't be paying for things you need for work because you are over-stretching yourself with hair and makeup session for a wedding.......but I am not that mean so I found myself saying 'well I will pay for the course and you can pay me back next month' .....hey ho

another question, the course is for years 0-8, are there courses for overs 8's? My step-daughter is 11 and will be in her care from September, does she need extra quals for the over 8's?

We have always paid for the course (about £100 with MNC training) but not given time off (they do Saturday courses). We have paid on the basis that it's required for OFSTED reg which we require for our nanny, and that I wouldn't want anyone looking after my kids who didn't have it. But really it depends on what your contract says.

I think 0-8 is standard paediatric 1st aid and beyond that it's just a regular 1st aid course but not an expert so others may know more.

And no, it doesn't invalidate insurance in any way if parents pay for the course, all that matters is that the nanny has done it, who paid is irrelevant.

The training needs to be appropriate to the type of provision being offered, so in the case of a nanny, it needs to be appropriate to the ages of the children for whom care is provided, in my view. Your Step Daughter being 11 is an adult for first aid purposes.

In the Guide to Registration on the Childcare Register (Annex C), Ofsted says:
"The need for a paediatric or an adult first aid certificate will depend upon the ages of the children for whom care is provided. Childcarers who care for children who have not yet reached puberty should have a paediatric first aid certificate. Childcarers who care for children who have reached puberty should have an adult first aid certificate. Childcarers who care for a wide age range of children may need to have both adult and paediatric training."

So Ofsted may consider that your nanny needs both types of certificate. However in the situation I would do the paediatric training making sure it covered resuscitation (links to videos) of an adult, as well as baby and child. The difference is the use of rescue breaths before chest compressions for baby and child, plus different way of doing cheat compressions. With adult, it's chest compressions first, not breaths. See link for more info and videos.

My last first aid course we split the cost 50/50. It was a two day course. One day when I would normally have been working (so their time) and one day on one of my days off (my time). That seemed fair to me.