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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM says she can no longer take photos?

67 replies

ApuskiDusky · 13/05/2011 22:13

Hi,

Our childminder has always taken quite a lot of photos of our ds when in her care - some of which she uses to demonstrate what she has been doing for OFSTED inspections; she sends all of them to us (and has put together a DVD of photos as a Christmas present in the past).

She has said today that she has to stop taking photos, other than ones she will use for OFSTED, as otherwise she has to pay some kind of fee to the NCMA? A new child protection scheme? So she can no longer send us any photos.

Have you heard about this, and is my CM's interpretation of this correct?

TIA

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maidbloke · 13/05/2011 23:18

Whist the NCMA are technically right about registering as a data controller, we all know that, in the real world, it's absolute b*llocks to expect CMs to register.

Just ignore the madness and carry on as you were. No one will either know...or care.

looneytune · 14/05/2011 08:07

I registered with the ICO recently as was told Ofsted inspectors are now checking it.

I must admit, I've really had enough of all this stupid stuff now and it makes me wish I was in a position to quit!!! Oh and it's a total waste of money too, being on the register is simply that, being on a register. It doesn't actually 'protect' anyone from what I can see?!

chabbychic · 14/05/2011 08:32

FGS it's only £35. How can you be a decent childminder and not take photos of the children? From what I gather you can risk a fine of thousands if you're not registered with the ICO. I know they are taking money for nothing but sometimes you just have to conform.

HSMM · 14/05/2011 08:34

Yes, I registered with ICO. It's money I would rather have in my bank account and it has been of no benefit to the children.

iMum · 14/05/2011 08:38

ThisIsWhyIQuitChildminding.com

NetworkGuy · 14/05/2011 08:45

Only in the last few days a politician (think in the House of Lords) was commenting on there being extra "taxes" imposed on people doing their jobs (in the case he pointed to it was dentists needing to register with some govt body at a cost of 800 pounds a year, somewhat more than 35, but principle the same).

Over a number of years, some of the costs had gone up fourfold, ie + 300%, and clearly massively above inflation. Government spokesperson was "not persuaded" that there should be any relaxation or changes, despite suggestions of reducing burden of regulations and paperwork for smaller businesses.

nannynick · 14/05/2011 09:36

What applies to big business seems to also apply to small business. Fine in principle but in reality it's not so good.

Parents with a nanny should be ICO registered, as they are a small business (1 employee) and will have some data about their nanny in electronic form these days, or do parents never record anything about their nanny on an electronic device?

maidbloke · 14/05/2011 09:55

looneytune said:

being on the register is simply that, being on a register.
It doesn't actually 'protect' anyone from what I can see?!

Exactly.

The important part is not the paying the £ 35 and filling in the form.

The important part is being aware of the 8 principles of data protection and abiding by them. They are straight forward and all common sense really. This page summarises them and is one of the few pages on the ICO website that won't send you to sleep:

www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/the_principles.aspx

Anyone can do that - without putting themselves on a register.

meditrina · 14/05/2011 10:04

I thought that any keeping of data in an organised filing system was controlled by The Data Protection Act? Not just photographs?

But don't exclude the possibility that she is using officialdom as a pretext, either because she doesn't want to do this anymore, or because another mindee's family has refused/withdrawn permission for photos (and might have good reasons for doing so) and she doesn't want to be treating her mindees differently. I wouldn't force the issue. I'm sure you'll have plenty of other non-Cm opportunities to get lovely pix of your children.

HSMM · 14/05/2011 11:47

meditrina - you're right, I registered because of all the email addresses, phone numbers, etc I store, as well as the photos.

sillymillysmummy · 14/05/2011 12:43

erm, this is the first i have heard about this...........i had no idea i am supposed to register with these people

stomp · 14/05/2011 14:48

If a childminder records observations and progress on the computer- even if they just print it off- they are supposed to register with the IOC, same with other personal information and digital photos. I tried to resist registering?. but in the end decided it was worth £35 to stop me worrying that Ofsted or someone else would ask to see my registration- I think the whole thing is ridiculous but once the NCMA started saying we needed to well that was the final straw.

nannynick · 14/05/2011 14:58

Is it a one off fee or an annual registration? What if you move, does it move with you or do you need to re-register?

apotomak · 14/05/2011 15:43

I don't understand all this complaining. I registered and paid £35. I am responsible enough as a professional to go by the rules. They do give you guidance on how to store data ... to be honest I haven't really thought about it before. I got a certificate to show to prospective parents and most of them commented that other minders didn't have this one. Had my inspection recently and inspector said 'I see you take photos and use computer to store data have you registered with ICO?' I was able to show her certificate there and then (she did say that most minders have no clue what she's asking about). Ofsted do check now so if any of you are due an inspection I strongly advise to register.
I take as many photos as I want and don't have to worry about breaking rules.
I know some minders said they go back to an old fashioned camera to avoid registering but I bet it will cost them way more than this £35 a year to run.

HSMM · 14/05/2011 16:07

It's an annual fee for the business. I imagine if I move, then I just have to send them my change of address. Forget the focus on photos, it could be simply and email address, or phone numbers on your mobile. My renewal has just come through as a direct debit.

nannynick · 14/05/2011 18:50

Talking of annual business fees - if you are paying the ICO fee, then are you also paying the Business Waste collection fee? What about Business Rates (or are those done on property type?). Point I'm getting at is that either childminding is a business and everything business related applies, or it isn't a business.

Seems that over recent years more and more things have started to apply... so will childminding be seen as being a business now by local councils (so waste collections, planning permission, business rates?) and by Ofsted (thus publishing full location data)?

As a nanny (and thus employee) I expect I don't have to pay the ICO fee, though do wonder if the parents (my employer) does or not.

nannynick · 14/05/2011 19:01

"it could be simply and email address, or phone numbers on your mobile." So would that not apply to everyone in the country then... we all store that sort of data on a mobile phone (assuming we have one). Mind you, the ICO website says that "personal information for your own domestic use" is exempt.

HSMM · 14/05/2011 21:44

I keep waiting for them to get us for business waste and rates, etc. Particularly as there is a rumour that nappies should be treated as medical waste and we might need special bins! (I would like to see that working all over the country for parents). I have had to get planning permission, because I work with my DH and we care for more than 6 children. It is the information stored for business use that counts, not personal. I could try arguing that I take photos for my friends (the parents) and not Ofsted, but ...... We can only watch where they move the boundaries next for Childminders. I would have thought a nanny employer might need to register, but who's going to check?

mrsthomsontobe · 14/05/2011 22:27

i am a childminder in scotland and have never heard anything about this. i wonder if i should be registered although scma has never said anything and neither have care commission

maidbloke · 14/05/2011 22:56

@apotomak It's not the £ 35 that I object to, it's the utter pointlessness of it all.

So the fee is paid and the CM's name gets added to list of all the other people who have paid. How does that benefit anybody? How does that help anyone be more careful with the data they keep?

apotomak · 14/05/2011 23:36

@maidbloke ... it doesn't really change anything as such ... although it has for me because I use family computer and before I stored my files and anybody in my house could acess them ... I have now pasword protected my files so my family members who also use this computer won't go into them. I'm not saying they did or would anyway.
So basically you say you will look after the data as best as you can taking into consideration their guidance and you will not abuse the data you collect. So you're naming yourself as a person who will be responsible for this. That's what you pay for.

pellmell · 14/05/2011 23:46

Once the tax is paid are our details held on a database that can be accessed and viewed by members of the public?

maidbloke · 14/05/2011 23:57

@ pellmell yes you can search the register from a link on this page:
www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/promoting_data_privacy/keeping_the_register.aspx

elphabadefiesgravity · 15/05/2011 00:19

Parents with a nanny don't have to register as you are exempt if you only keep such information on employees that is needed to adminster payroll etc. Can;t remember the official workding but it is exempt.

anewyear · 15/05/2011 08:14

Ive Read in a local childminders magazine, that Childminders have to register as a Food Buisiness now.

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