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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Sleeping with charge.

27 replies

Allleila · 29/03/2011 08:43

I work as a live-in nanny. My hours aren't set I work when the mother works and she works shifts. She's just started a new job where she's expected to do nights. I would have no problem working nights if the mothere didn't expect me to have the child in my bed at night. The little girl is wonderful but she is 17 months old and I don't feel comfortable with the idea of her staying in my bed at night. I can underdtand where the mother is coming from as she has always had her in her bed (the cot is just a prop in the nursery to be honest).

Also to make matters worse the little girl doesn't have a bedtime or any sort of routine to be honest but we've always managed. But I do know that she doesn't go to bed until gone 10 and I am normal in bed by 9.

So would you say that I'm being unreasonable that I want to contest this idea and say I'm will to work the nights if she has a bed time and will sleep in her cot? Any and all opinions will be appreciated.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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BradfordMum · 29/03/2011 08:50

I think the mother should have thought of the sleeping arrangements before taking the job.
Maybe she's hoping you will get the lo into a sleep routine for her.

babyapplejack · 29/03/2011 09:00

I think that a child of 17 months who has always gone to bed with their mum would have no chance of sleeping in a cot.

I think YANBU, though, I wouldn't really want someone else's 17 month old in bed with me. Tricky as I don't see how she's going to get her to use the cot after all this time.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 29/03/2011 09:03

No you do not have to (and should not) have the child in your bed with you. It's not your child, if you don't feel comfortable or safe doing it then it's risky. Even parents who co-sleep have to feel comfortable doing it and the general advice is if you're not 100% happy and confident about it don't do it. I doubt your insurance would cover you if you rolled over and smothered her.

Perhaps your charge will behave differently for you? I've always made it very clear to parents who co-sleep that I will not be doing that, although I am happy to resettle as many times as necessary and observe their preferred bedtime routine. Not had a problem as children adapt to different caregivers.

Is your wage changing to reflect that you will now do nights?

Original poster

Allleila · 29/03/2011 09:05

No my wage isn't changing as I'd still be doing the same number of hours a week. Should the fact I'd be doing nights affect my pay?

OP posts:

blueberryboybaitonSafari · 29/03/2011 09:10

I worked in a similar situation once - the parents co-slept and expected me to the same but to sleep in their bed with LO. I refused and the first night they were away I got LO ready for bed (bath, story, loo etc.) at 7.30, took her to the bed in their room, read stories, lay with her until she was asleep then left her to sleep and I slept in the spare room next door, she woke once at 5am asking for mummy, I soothed her back to sleep and she woke at 7.30. Mum was amazed and the LO happily went back to co-sleeping with mum and dad but knew when I was staying over she slept alone. I finally got her into her own bed at 4 when I had sole charge for 3 weeks!

If you are not happy to co-sleep then you need to make it known.

blueberryboybaitonSafari · 29/03/2011 09:11

I always got an overnight payment of £20 a night in addition to my wages.

nannyl · 29/03/2011 09:33

YANBU

if you dont feel comfortable sleeping in the same bed as her then dont. I doubt your nanny insurance would cover it either, though cant say i have checked the small print.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 29/03/2011 09:42

It's unsociable hours, you're having your sleep disturbed and if she's not going to be co-sleeping she may well not sleep through so I'd say you should be getting a payrise.

Working 50 hours 8am-6pm doesn't usually pay the same as working 50 hours at night nannying rates (typically 9pm-7am).

Even if she were sleeping through I'd argue that you should be getting an on call overnight payment for every time you have to work through the night. I can't speak for you but I definitely don't sleep as well when I know I have responsibility for the children.

What happens during the days following night shifts as well? Do you have to look after the child because mother needs to catch up on sleep, effectively working more hours?

nbee84 · 29/03/2011 12:43

Was just going to ask the same question as Frakk about the Mum needing sleep.

I think it's highly likely you will be working more hours as you will be worrking the overnight hours while Mum is at work - when she gets home she won't be able to look after her child all day and then go to work in the evening. She's going to need to sleep at some point.

Original poster

Allleila · 29/03/2011 14:09

I've talked to the mum about the pattern and she said her night shifts would be from 8 pm until 10 am (shework at a hospital). Mum'd want me to watch her from about three in the afternoon as well. She's also said that I won't be getting additional pay as I would be able to sleep while she sleeps and I should take up any additional pay with her ex-husband who doesn't live in the area but is the one that pays for me.

OP posts:

thebody · 29/03/2011 14:16

mum sounds like she is opting out here of her responsibilities as a mum...

out of getting her child to sleep on her own, establishing a routine, asking you to liase with her husband.. she should be sorting this out not you.. she is the mother not you..

personally I would be looking for another job.. and actually co sleeping with a child (not my own) makes me feel a bit creepy to be honest.. wouldnt be comfertable with this at all..

nbee84 · 29/03/2011 14:37

I'd be outta there quick sharp too!

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 29/03/2011 14:39

So hang on....she wants you to essentially work 3pm-10am (and she'll want to sleep too so I can imagine it basically being 24 hour care on the nights she works)?

'Sleep when she sleeps' is a bit rich for a co-sleeping accustomed 17 month old. She does know it doesn't work like that, right?

She needs to sort stuff with her XH too.

I'm with thebody, this would be perfectly acceptable grounds for looking for another job.

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/03/2011 14:50

def find a new job

but while looking, no i would not have child in bed with me

my friends mb/db co sleep and friend said no way, and for her the girl sleeps in own room when my friend works nights and sleeps happily in own cot and now bed

yet when mum and dad try (as tbh they dont want their 3yr in bed with them, but have since day one, plus also now have 18mth) girl screams

both nanny and i have told parents, let her scream

nannyl · 29/03/2011 14:56

What a nightmare

what does your contract say about hours worked?

Agree MUM needs to arrange for you to be paid extra hours. Even if baby did sleep in her cot all night you should still be paid extra for being on duty, even though you are asleep.

I think you need to sit down and tell her this, and that you WONT be sleeping in the same bed as her baby, and sleeping or not you will not be working extra hours unpaid either . If you are on duty then you need to be paid, simple as.

Original poster

Allleila · 30/03/2011 11:24

I talked to the mother outlinng what has been mentioned in this thread and she mentioned changng the terms of my contract whch I said I'd agree to if we wrote the terms and discussed them together as her new job on monday and s roata to work friday, saturday and sunday night.

Ths morning the mother gave me a new contract and told me either I agree to the new terms today or I would be fired even though my employer is actually her XHusband and he is the one that pays me. The terms now say I dont have set hours but work up to 60 hours a week (previously set at 45 hours with regualr hours) dependendant on mums hour. That I'd have to work night and co-sleep with DD. And that the hours between 11pmand 5am wouldnt be counted in my hours as she'd be asleep so I should be able to watch her from 3pm until 10.30am 'no problem'.

I'm seriously considering just being fired but I do honestly love my job and get on well with DD and the XH (as one month me and DD are with mum the other wth the XH).

OP posts:

nannyl · 30/03/2011 11:37

OMG

that person is so unreasonable you can not work for her. Or anyone like that. You are worth more than that.

Tell her that you will NOT be agreeing to those T&Cs. How long have you been working there. Even without a signed contract you have rights and that inculdes notice and pay (so long as you arnt guilty of gross misconduct, which you are not)

The mother is highly unlikely to find anyone else to agree to it either, id point that out to her too.
TELL her the you will not be agreeing to that as its unreasonable. Even if they ask you to leave you are entitled to 2 weeks pay. You may need small claims and the help of CAB, but you WILL win.

nannyl · 30/03/2011 11:44

also you have a legal right to 11 consecutive hours off between shifts.
(though not sure if that applies to live in, obviously not for proxy parenting , but you are NOT proxy parenting!) but for normal nanny jobs it does apply

OTTMummA · 30/03/2011 11:47

Tell her good luck finding a decent Nanny who will agree to those hours/terms on the same pay as a 45hr week.
I would also tell her that she can not actually sack you because it is her Ex Husband who has employed you, and that since she has become unreasonable to talk to that you will now only sort these matters out with your employer, her ex.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 30/03/2011 13:31

Mmmmm no...

45 to 60 with no pay increase. No.
Obliged to co-sleep. No.
Child wakes up at 5am and she doens't want to pay you extra. No.
Trying to fire you with no notice period. No.

Just. No.

How long have you been working there? Under your previous contract I mean.

warthog · 30/03/2011 13:38

omg - this just takes the cake.

i can't believe anyone could be so unreasonable. she's off her rocker.

i do hope you leave because she really doesn't deserve to get away with this.

Squinkle · 30/03/2011 14:48

I have been a nanny for 11 years including positions as a night-nanny.

LEAVE! This is not worth it and the mother is taking complete advantage of you. None of her expectations are reasonable, and the fact that she said she'd fire you on the spot if you didn't agree to the new contract is ridiculous. Perhaps you should ask her whether she'd be happy if her boss treated her in the same way?

If you end up staying, negotiate things so that they are fair and on your terms as well as hers. You could be instrumental in getting her daughter into a good sleep routine, in her own cot: it would be far better for you to do this than a new nanny as you have built a relationship with her daughter. She should appreciate what a good thing she has!

You will essentially be doing shift work, and you need to be paid for every single hour of that shift (just as your employer does when she's at work). It doesn't matter whether you are awake or asleep: you are in sole charge of her daughter and that is that. Her only alternative would be to go to a specialist night nanny agency, who would say the same thing! It might be an idea to do a google search for such agencies and have a look at their rates/ask their advice.

The main thing is to remember that no matter how attached you are to the child, this is just a job. Don't let it get you down. There are plenty of great nanny jobs out there, you sound sensible and conscientious so don't let this mother bully you into doing something you're not happy with - it will be her loss, not yours, if you decide to work for someone else. Good luck.

PatriciaHolm · 30/03/2011 17:08

Tell her that if 11pm-5am don't count as your hours, then she'll be fine with you leaving the house then; as, clearly, you aren't being paid, so aren't responsible for the child.

EVERY hour you have sole responsibility for the child is one of your working hours, whether the child is asleep or not.

And I'm pretty sure she can't, legally, fire you for not signing this contract; you could sue her for wrongful dismissal, changes in terms and conditions have to be mutually agreed. Post in Legal if you want a better view on that though.

Original poster

Allleila · 30/03/2011 18:25

Thanks for the advice. I managed to get in touch with her XH who and we've come to a temporary arrangement. As me and DD alternate 4 weeks with mum 4 weeks wth dad he's informed the mum that she cant fire me and that he won't pay for an additional nanny giving me the rest of this week and next week off as additional paid holiday as long as I continue to nanny for him during his four weeks without it affecting my yearly pay in anyway as I have been working for them for th past 14 months.
As to the mother she has been informed that she can either hire her own nanny or come to an arrangement with reasonable terms with me. So alls well that ends well.
Thanks for all your savvy input.

OP posts:

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 30/03/2011 18:39

With 14 months of service she needs a jolly good reason to get rid of you anyway.

Glad it's all worked out well and hope the mother will be more reasonable now.

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