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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Oh, no - another "Is this salary reasonable for a central London nanny" thread ... but I need your help!

61 replies

LittleOneMum · 07/02/2011 09:57

My nanny has been with us for 2.5 years. Prior to that she had 2 years experience. In the time she has been with us, we have put her up from £450 net per week to £475 and then to £500 net. On Friday she asked for an increase to £550.
This seems outrageously high to me, but maybe I am horribly behind the times. Can you help? I'm in central London. She looks after my DS (3 - at school every morning) and DD (9 months). She says she needs the increase because the new job (i.e. having 2 to look after, I just went back from maternity leave) is very much more tiring and full on. She says she needs to employ a cleaner at home as she is so tired.

A 20% increase in salary in 2.5 years seems a lot to me but I do not want to pay her less than she is entitled to. Help please?

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dinkystinky · 07/02/2011 10:02

How many hours a day does she work?

I agree that a rise to £550 a week sounds high, especially as your eldest is not at home for the full day. Does she get any other perks? Perhaps you could offer to pay an amount equivalent to what she pays her cleaner if you so wished (so she's not out of pocket).

Bonsoir · 07/02/2011 10:04

How many hours is she working per day/week?

Original poster

LittleOneMum · 07/02/2011 10:04

She works 5 days a week. 9.5 hours. It is quite a lot, I know. Perks? She has a contractual right to 6 weeks holiday but we give her about 12. That might not be a 'perk' as such. She has a car.
I just want to be fair to her.

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Bonsoir · 07/02/2011 10:06

What errands and chores does she do aside from the school run? Does she do errands on foot or by car?

Bonsoir · 07/02/2011 10:09

When my DD was three and at school mornings only, I was permanently knackered - and I didn't have a baby to look after. I think it's a very tough time, when little ones start school - a lot of mothers had new babies at that point around me, and everyone seemed incredibly tired.

Strix · 07/02/2011 10:09

Nannies' rates are not normally determined by the number of children they look after. And, quite frankly, two is not very many. As an aemployer, what I would accept, is that there may be jobs she can't spend as much time on as when she only had one. For example, there might be a frozen pizza night in place of non stop Annabel Karmel recipes. (But I would still expect some veg to make its way onto the pizza!)

I think it is customary to get about a 5% raise annually in most jobs. So, I'd say her next raise is due about the time your younger one heads into full time school. I would suggest a formal contract/performance review every 6 or 12 months, and schedule the first contract review for 12 months after her last raise.

Original poster

LittleOneMum · 07/02/2011 10:11

She has no 'chores' per se, save for things which are connected to my 2 DCs, for example, cooking lunch. She also tidies up a bit before I get home. I do all the laundry etc, she is not expected to do any household chores at all.
No 'errands' but I do give her money to shop for ingredients if she wants to make particular dishes (she is a vegetarian and cooks wholly veggie) so sometimes she shops for ingredients I may not have thought of, if that makes sense! She has full access to the car, she does not use it for errands I don't think - everything is very local and can be done on foot (including school run).

She's a great nanny overall, i should have made that clear!

OP posts:

Original poster

LittleOneMum · 07/02/2011 10:13

I think you are right Strix I have been a bit lax about having a particular time when we talk about increases. She had her last pay rise 1 year ago now.

OP posts:

Original poster

LittleOneMum · 07/02/2011 10:14

and Bonsoir you are right, it is tiring. I've just had 9 months of it at home and I still do weekends of course and it is tiring.

Oh should have said that I don't work on a Friday and always do the school run that day, and also try to take DS to school at least one other morning a week to make life easier (and because I like it!)

OP posts:

Strix · 07/02/2011 10:16

Did I read that right? Did you just say she does not do children's laundry, cook for children, generally tidying/organising for children?

Original poster

LittleOneMum · 07/02/2011 10:19

I think you must have misread me. She does do things which are connected to my DCs - she cooks for them, and generally tidies/organises and things. I generally do laundry.

OP posts:

Strix · 07/02/2011 10:20

I think being a mum is much more tiring than being a nanny because you don't get to clock off... ever. A nanny should be a professional and be able to handle 9.5 hours of two children without keeling over of exhaustion in the evening.

I'd like a cleaner. Do you think i should go ask my boss if he'll give me a raise to pay for one because he works me too hard during the day? I think I'd be laughed at.

mranchovy · 07/02/2011 10:21

12 weeks (paid) holiday is an enormous perk. I assume you mean she uses her own car, not that you provider her with one.

£450pw net is £600 gross, and £550pw is £744 gross which is a 24% increase.

At £500pw net she is on a salary of £35,000 which is just below the salary of a teacher in Inner London with 5 years of experience.

You have 1 baby and 1 at preschool? Unless there is some other factor, this does not sound like a demanding job, and hours at 47.5 are not abnormally long either.

orangina · 07/02/2011 10:22

It sounds like an awful lot for not as much as it could be......! And the pay rise she wants is the equivalent to 10% which NOBODY is getting in the real world at the moment.

Feel very for you.....

Bink · 07/02/2011 10:29

This salary survey is pretty authoritative - though you should consider it 'high-end', as it'll be a survey of what employers pay who (a) fully face up to tax/NI and (b) use a payroll provider that is not the cheapest on the market - so again people who aren't trying to cut any corners - and suggests that her current rate is good - ie, if you had to replace her you wouldn't have too much difficulty finding candidates.

I am afraid I think she is taking advantage just at this minute - maybe thinking it would be a very difficult time for you to change nannies, so a good negotiating moment. Also, it looks as if you've been doing annual payrises (is that right, were they annual?) of 5.5% the first time & slightly less than that the second time (both fine, as percentages, in current climate) - so it isn't time for her to have a payrise. When it comes to the payrise, a 10% would be a lot in the current climate but you may feel you're happy to do that? If you can bear it, I would say no but you'll bear in mind what she says for the next scheduled payrise (be careful with this message if you can't manage what she's hoping for) - and just see what she does. If you have to change nannies really it won't be the end of the world - and honestly, with two children, you want someone who thinks the buzz of two children is FUN, not someone who can only cope comfortably with one.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 07/02/2011 10:37

5 days at 9.5 hours isn't a lot for a nanny. Her net salary is already just over average for London with nearly 5 years exp, the rise would take it well over.

If you have gross in your contract then she will get a de facto payrise when the change kicks in anyway!

I don't think it's customary to raise the salary for a new baby though some do. A yearly review taking into account any changes would be more usual.

freshmint · 07/02/2011 10:40

"customary to have a 5% rise in most jobs"

really? isn't there a recession on? I haven't had a pay rise for 3 years.

She is being unreasonable. And a bit pathetic. It is her job to look after 2 kids - she doesn't have to et up at night with them - it should not be "exhausting"...

Bink · 07/02/2011 10:41

When you don't work on a Friday, does she work? - or is she only doing a 4-day week? If it's a 4-day week then she is really is asking too much.

PS - extra holiday isn't always seen by nannies as a perk - on the basis that they can't really do much with the extra time off. We thought it would be a selling point for our job, but actually it wasn't at all - the people who wanted the job would have been as happy with 6 wks as 12. What does make a difference is being free to choose her holiday - does she get that at all? I'm guessing that the 12 wks is because you get holiday so you pass on the time off to her (so your choice, not hers?)

StillSquiffy · 07/02/2011 11:36

Jeez, what is it with nannies at the moment?

I worked out that with the incidental costs of working (costs of commuting and having a second car to get me to/from station, etc) it is only at the £92,000 gross salary point that I get as much take-home pay as my nanny - and she is on much less than you are currently paying for your nanny.

It is much worse with your numbers. At £550 your nanny would take home £28,620 per annum, but you would pay £42,900 in total, including the tax element. If you wanted to have the same take-home pay as her you would need to earn more than £115,000 (given that you have to pay her out of taxed earnings). And that's before taking into account commute/2nd car costs etc.

I think nannies just don't get it sometimes - ask any nanny on here whether they are better off than their boss if they earn £550 a week and their employer earns £2k per week and they will probably say no and will have a hard time believing you when you tell them that they are earning more than you in such a situation....

(listentotaxman.com is where you do the calcs, by the way)

Original poster

LittleOneMum · 07/02/2011 12:16

Bink I think you've hit the nail on the head with the exhaustion thing. She does complain that she is so tired etc all the time and I find it really hard to come home and hear, tbh. But she's a frank kind of girl, and I think honesty is better.

Stillsquiffy you scare me. I'll just resign now !

No, she still works a Friday, as I also do other things, but I often send her home at lunchtime or somethinng.

You're right, I don't count extra holidays as a 'perk' per se. Yes, she gets to choose 4 weeks of her choice. And we give her a car (which remains ours!)

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SnapFrakkleAndPop · 07/02/2011 12:24

4 weeks choice is pretty darn good though! Your nanny has a well-paid job with flexible employers, which is incredibly rare. Most well-paid jobs pay what they do because the flexibility is all on the nanny's side.

Blondeshavemorefun · 07/02/2011 12:45

oh didums, your nanny is tired looking after 2 dc (one at nursrey) and working 9.5hrs a day - poor nanny

thats me being sarky btw - just incase no one worked that out

average nanny hrs are 11 a day so she has 1.5hrs a day on most nannies and can do her housework then

if she wamts a cleaner then fine, but she pays for it

not saying she doesnt derseve a payrise but not 50nett a week

btw discuss gross when you do chat to her

a nanny is not paid per child but per family and if she feels she cant cope with 2 then she needs to find another job

leeloo1 · 07/02/2011 13:03

In whose world is 12 weeks holiday not a perk? I get 4 (as a childminder) I'd be very very happy to have 12!

I can see why most nannies wouldn't be willng to be paid less as a result of more holidays, but how can it not be a perk to not have to go to work?

Bonsoir · 07/02/2011 13:04

StillSquiffy - surely lots of nannies also incur "costs of working" ie commuting costs, car costs, childcare costs?

Lily311 · 07/02/2011 13:05

I've been with current families for over 2 years, i'm in sw London, zone 2. I got a payrise after 1 year, 20p an hour which came out as 1.78% net rise. After 2nd year I did get a payrise when baby joined nannyshare (I'm looking after 3 under the age of 2.5), £1 an hour but did not get a payrise when I have only the older 2 or only 1 child. I understand why she asked for it but she already gets a good salary from you and if you feel that you don't want to give her more,than don't. She will get more money from April if she is on a gross salary anyhow.

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