Oh, no - another "Is this salary reasonable for a central London nanny" thread ... but I need your help!

[LittleOneMum]

My nanny has been with us for 2.5 years. Prior to that she had 2 years experience. In the time she has been with us, we have put her up from £450 net per week to £475 and then to £500 net. On Friday she asked for an increase to £550.
This seems outrageously high to me, but maybe I am horribly behind the times. Can you help? I'm in central London. She looks after my DS (3 - at school every morning) and DD (9 months). She says she needs the increase because the new job (i.e. having 2 to look after, I just went back from maternity leave) is very much more tiring and full on. She says she needs to employ a cleaner at home as she is so tired.

A 20% increase in salary in 2.5 years seems a lot to me but I do not want to pay her less than she is entitled to. Help please?

that's too high but you have to decide if you don't give it to her and she leaves, can you put up with the inconvenience of finding someone else (recruiting, interviewing, bedding them in etc. etc.). I think she's bargaining on you not wanting to do that hence asking for the rise.

sounds like you have a similar situation to me in terms of childcare needs... I live in central london (W8) and have a full time nanny live out to look after my 3 yr old (nursery 9-12 during term time) and almost 2 year old who will be starting nursery in April. I am, however, about to have my 3r child so when I go back to work it will be very busy with 3 under 4!
She works 10.5 hours a day and we pay 550npw which I think is reasonable as it is difficult with 2 such little ones (only 17 months apart). Only nursery duties and a bit of shopping etc, keeping tidy, and we employ a cleaner to do all the ironing etc....
I genuinely think if you have a lovely nanny that does everything how you want, then its worth it, though it is a stretch!

This is incredible. Absolutely.

I wish I could go complaining to my boss whenever I felt that I was worked too hard or got another child in my class or just so tired that I have to employ a cleaner at home and need to commute to work and pay car insurance...etc.. it's only fair that my salary be raised accordingly, right?

I'd just get a new nanny. TRUST ME, your kids will not suffer. They may love her, but they will love another one that is good just as much, I'm sure of it. Kids are more adaptable than we often think. :) There are a lot of nannies looking for work.

..forgot to add... no payrise should be because she wants to get a cleaner ...that is her lifestyle choice for which you are not responsible... a payrise should only be in response to doing a fantastic job for a long time and for extra work (hours, substantial change to job particulars etc.

I am also coming from the point of view of having been in nanny hell and knowing how a nanny situation can go pear shaped which is why I feel it is worth while paying a good nanny good money......

Nannies come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and prices. in my experience, simply paying them more does not necessariy result in a better service. It's more about the right fit, really.

Generally speaking, I expect my nanny to do for me whatever I would do for my boss, and vice versa. I would never ask my boss to get me a cleaner because he gave me a second project to look after. I would, however, see that second project as an opporunity to prove myself and then possible ask for a raise or promotion at my next review based on my exemplary performance and dedication to the company/department.

Hey Squiff, what kind of car is in the £92k calculation?

I don't think is high for central london but not low either.
The extra holidays is a nice perk imo.

I pay the same and i'm very far (Barnet) but she is v.experienced and bi-lingual which is important to us.

Could you formalise the Friday afternoons off and keep pay the same?
Makes no difference to you but should allow her to clean her house & sleep?!

Just looking at this again - what you are I think paying over the odds for is her (lack of) experience - in two ways: partly that she only had 2 years before coming to you (what were those? - sole charge? shared care? mother's help sort of thing?) and partly because if she had more experience I bet she'd find the workload far easier to get to grips with (or she'd have left nannying because she'd have realised it was too much).

Is she qualified?

Couple of other things

• are you/your partner getting vouchers to help with the costs?

• the car. Does she have it because you want the children taken about by car, or because she wants it? We're central/west London, two children, and have never needed a separate nanny-car - we used to insure our own one for our nanny but it really wasn't ever used. If you're happy with her not having a car, you could always do away with that and use the cost to give her a bit of a rise (if you were minded to, which I still think however is giving her the wrong message, which is that by catching you at a difficult moment she can take advantage).

I still think that if you spoke to agencies about your 9.5/hr day sole-charge job, Fridays-flexible, 9mth old, + toddler afternoons only, you'd get loads of applicants.

Catilla I'd love to do that, but I can't, as I need the flexibility in case I have something that overruns and I have to work a Friday (has not happened as yet).

Bink (love your name, it's my pet name for my DD for some reason!) - no vouchers and the car, yes, same as you - not really needed.

I am really in two minds about all this.

I wouldn't be happy to pay someone who was obviously trying to take advantage like she is. She's only going to want more as time passes. Like Bink said, you'll get loads of applicants for this job. And a fab nanny for much less cost.
Expensive nanny does not always equal better nanny.

Squiffy, can you explain this sentence: "At £550 your nanny would take home £28,620 per annum, but you would pay £42,900 in total, including the tax element. "

Where does the 42k come from?
(apologies if being thick)

I don't know much about nannies but judging from the comments above it seems like you are already paying a fair rate. Perhaps she suggested £550 pw as a negotiation point?

I think it would be reasonable of you to suggest a counter offer, or perhaps suggest that you schedule an annual review starting in 6 months' time at which point pay can be discussed? You could write down what you think is a reflection of her responsibilities and suggest that in order to earn a payrise she takes on more tasks? That's how it works in an office, and it's not as if her suggested payrise is in any way linked to inflation.

But your nanny's payrises have been pretty favourable given the economy over the last few years. Perhaps you could look at how your finances have improved over the last few years and compare the percentage increases? To put it another way, I'm quite early in my career and have had three promotions over the last three years, one of them major, and my percentage increase has been a rather paltry 18% increase, total. Given the state of my industry I've been lucky!

30andMerkin look at listentotaxman.com... type in a gross annual salary and you see all the amounts for take-home / tax etc.

30andMerkin - it is due to the salary being discussed being Net (take home) not Gross. So to get from £550 net per week, to £43k, it's the Employees National Insurance, Employees Income Tax, Employers National Insurance.

calculator.kistax.com will so a reverse calculation, so Net to Gross. Simply enter the Net pay per hour/day/week figure and click calculate. Other options on the site let you change taxcode, number of hours worked if required.

I would do what someone else said and mention (if paid gross) that since the personal allowance goes up she will be taking home more then. If paid net I suppose you could continue to pay out what you do now, which would also equate to pay rise for her net.

You can then say you will review the salary again at a set date in the future- and remember to do it and perhaps get in before she reminds you.

If she was def. worth it to you then you'd have just increased without question or coming on MN? Though I've never asked for payrise and rarely been given a regular one. So maybe I'm just a bit surprised she's brave enough to ask for a third rise. I would say that rise would make her a very well paid nanny but certainly not without precedent for central london.

This tiredness thing also seems a bit of an issue for you and maybe the fact that this is the reason she gave is causing you to think twice. And fair enough.

Instead of increasing pay could you ask what would make her life easier in the day or calm any anxieties she might have about your expectations e.g. have bottles sterilsed ready to go on side in morning, giving her permission to leave things a little untidy if she would do it the next day, let baby eat out or sleep in buggy, put baby einstein dvd on for a bit etc.

Only she will know what might make things more smooth running for them both. Similar jobs can sometimes vary in difficulty depending on small dynamics/ house set up/parental expectations etc. You have presumably been at home for maternity leave, which might have also made things more difficult recently?

in what world are people asking for 10% pay rises at the moment? I am in the middle of a 3 year pay freeze, as are many many employees.

Littleonemum, you are right in your opening post. It is outrageously high and there is no way that I would give it. I would be really annoyed that the circumstances in which she is asking for it, when you have just returned from mat leave is planned to cause maximum grief but I would call her bluff and if she leaves, she leaves.

I have a great nanny who not only looks after DD really well but sort of acts as our housekeeper as well. She does everything to do with DD but on top of that she will runs errands, will cook extra for us, does our laundry and ironing etc etc. Totally not what we expected at all but are very grateful as she makes our lives so much easier. In a year's time, I will be in the same position as you, pre-school DD plus 9 month baby and my intention is to give her 5% rise when we do her annual pay review. The only way that I would agree to pay such a premium amount of £550npw is if a) she was a very experienced nanny and b) she was doing all the little extras that our nanny does for us and c) I genuinely believed that she was irreplacable. Otherwise you are just holding yourself out as a hostage to future and equally unreasonable pay demands.

Your nanny is already on a high wage for the hours she is doing.Most nannies do at least 10hrs,usually 10.5/11 and £450-£500 for those hours so your nanny is already doing well!

I must be doing something wrong!

I've been a nanny for 24 years, have excellent references and have been back to work for 3 ex-families and I don't earn anywhere near what your nanny earns!

I do live-in and have a car, so no bills but even with this factored in, I wouldn't make what some of these nannies are asking for and getting in a lot of cases.

I am honestly happy with what I earn, the job/family is far more important than the money to me, although some parents don't get this and offer me more money to take a job that I don't want! (I am looking currently.)

I also work 72 hours plus a week looking after 3 year old twin boys and their baby brother, yes, some weekends I could spend both days in bed, but I would dare to mention this to my employers!

callaid you have the right to be tired,op nanny doesnt,her job is a doddle - 9.5hrs a day and 2 kids

she should come to my job and do a tuesday and manage 2 different school drop offs in totaly opposite directions in rush hour , tumbletots,2 different pick ups,netball after school club and tea and homework done in an hour - plus dragging 3 dc and trying to push off an over loving woofa

littleonemum if your nanny left, she would find it very hard to get the money she is on now in another job,when there are nannies with 10/15yrs exp wanting the same - sure many would laugh at her

Call her bluff. Ask her what she will do to maintain the raise she is asking for. Not what she has dOne to date but what she will do in the future.

Also, what is it with nannies and net salary? No-one else gets net salaries in their contracts, or raises on a net basis so why the hell do nannies? Is it some tax dodge?

Heeeeellllooooo Callaird. How are you? Where are you living/working mow?

(sorry for hijack, OP, but I think you've got your answer now.)

Strix - think she went back to her ex dc/twins

Hows no 3? Were you on time? All ok?

Sorry op - another hijack