Is this Salary reasonable for Central London Nanny

[BigGLittleG]

Hello,

I need advice as a first-time mother hiring a nanny!

My husband and I live in central london and have hired a nanny to look after our ten month old son for 40 hrs a week at a rate of 540 (net).

I will be taking on a more demanding schedule until May and will now need our nanny to work for 48 hrs per week. She asked to be paid more for this time increase, at which point we raised her salary to 600 (net) and told her we would keep her salary this way even though I would be returning to a 40 hr week as of May.

She has come back to us very upset and has said that she expected to be paid £13.50 for any extra hours worked which would bring her salary up to £648 net per week.

Is this reasonable? From what I understand nannies are meant to work between 50-60 hrs per week and central london salaries range from 500-600 net per week. As she isn't even working these hours are we wrong to feel we are being taken advantage of?

She is English and has about 20 yrs of experience but at the rates she is charging, one would assume that she is Mary Poppins!
She is very good with our son but she is also very scatter-brained and messy so I often find myself cleaning up after her once she has left!

I also suspect that she is terrible with money as she has no savings and we had to lend her money for a deposit on her flat. She also seems to take a lot of black cabs everywhere (we avoid this as it's too costly) and she just bought a couch on credit from Habitat (most of our furniture is Ikea!).

The more I write this, the more I realise we may have to let her go. I suppose I just need confirmation that we are not being unreasonable in our salary offer to her.

Thank you for your replies.

Just to clarify...the £13.50 number came from her dividing £540 by 40 hrs per week.

Sorry for the long ramble!

You lent her money for a flat deposit? I do hope you're taking the repayments out of her pay.

I think you are paying a lot for a not brilliant nanny, though with her experience I expect she's in a position to have the pick of the jobs and can ask a higher rate than a less experienced nanny.

However, whilst I think if you're asking 'only' 40 hours a week you (as in 'one', not you personally, to be clear) can expect to pay a slightly higher rate per hour, bringing her hours up to 48 a week makes the position full time (imo) and thus a lower hourly rate is reasonable.

Out of interest, is it over 4 or 5 days?

If she is expecting £13.50 net for the hours increase, how about you offer her that, on the understanding her hours and thus pay will decrease after May?

She sounds rather cheeky, tbh.

That's a gross salary of £47500 or something, for 40 hours a week - a higher rate tax payer!

Recent nanny pay survey said that central London live outs in 2010 were earning £490 net per week, annual gross £34127 (and 98% of these work 40-60 hours/week), so I think you're not being unreasonble in finding another nanny. I'm sure you'd find lots of Mary Poppins who would love that salary.

She's being totally extraordinary! I think you're giving her a really good pay - and keeping her at the extra pay when you drop her down to 40 hours again so overall she's better off.

That said, if she's not happy with that - I'd find someone else. There are plenty of good nannies out there you could get to work for you for less money than she's demanding!

We live in Central London and our nanny works 40 hours. In her first year with us she got £10 per hour net. After a year We gave her a rise of £20 per week. On the odd week that I work more than 40 hours she gets an extra £10 an hour.

My friends with nannies all seem to pay around £10 an hour each too. Some through use of a car into the mix. I have never heard of anyone paying as much as you do.

And I would expect a nanny to leave the house immaculate. Or at least in the state she found it. Tidying up after herself and the kids is an integral part of the job.

Employ me! I'm an experienced nanny and lovely too and clean! :))

For central London nannies, hourly rate is £10ph net. I think its £13ph gross. You are paying her way too much. Even then she is not happy...? I think your nanny is greedy!

Thank you all so so much for your replies....

I didn't mention this but when I described her being upset at our pay proposal she quite literally implied to me that we were exploiting her. So I just wanted to double-check that this was not the case.

Bertina -- the job is over a 5 day period

I just can't believe I am going to have to fire her!

Thank you again

You overpay your nanny already. I don't get the rate you're paying for an hour doing a nannyshare in zone 2 (with level 4 qual and 8 years of experience I get £12.40 net an hour and do a 50hr week) and her demands are unreasonable.

And yes, I would expect her to leave the house immaculate, I am doing a nannyshare with 3 children but at the end of the day I make sure that the parents get a nice and tidy house back even if it means that I finish tidying up 5 min after my working hours finished.

If she is terrible with money-that's not your worries, you pay for the job what she does.

p.s. I'm looking for a new position as well ;)

I think she mixes up the situation with 'overtime pay'?
It is not unuasual to ask higher rate for overtime i.e. when occasionally you ask her to stay late. But this is not the case. If anything it is better for her to work 48hrs as the first poster said.

Your offer sounds reasonable and i think you should stick to your guns (otherwise she might twist your arm again in the future)

Just out of interest, how did you come to pay so much, and why are you happy to pay way above average? Did an agency suggest it? Does the nanny have unusual skills? Does the nanny have unusual duties? Just curious.

I would leap through fire for nanny wages like that! I've seen jobs working 24 hour cover, five days a week, not paying that amount!

Another thought-I've been job hunting and the average I came across is around £10 an hour net for central London. Occassionally it's £10.50 but that is the maximum I saw and that was with 3 children.

As a nanny I get overtime paid the same rate as my hourly rate- my only condition is that if it's more than 1.5 hours than I would prefer it as babysitting with a min of 3 hours guaranteed.

wow, she earns £13.50 nett gross yes a normal london wage but not nett

btw you should be talking gross not nett :)

so if a 5 day job she works 8hrs a day roughly

nannies are not meant to work 50/60 hrs a week, just depends on hours of job,though seems her days are short

you can find a better and cheaper nanny for about £480 nett for 48hrs, and one that doesnt run out black cab fares - give her a weekly/monthly kitty and once is gone thats it, bet she would take less cabs and walk/bus it more

why on earth did she buy a couch on credit for you?

My husband and I live in central london and have hired a nanny to look after our ten month old son for 40 hrs a week at a rate of 540 (net).

Like others on here, I'd like to know some history.

When did you hire this nanny (this may be important if you do decide to end the contract)?

Why have you put the pay on here as Net? Whose idea was it to agree a Net wage, the nannies, yours and agency? (Interested to know this due to this thread about Net v Gross wages)

£540 net per week in 2010/11 tax year is £38,020 Gross per year. £42,155 cost to employer.

That is £18.25 Gross per hour which is high even for Central London.

will now need our nanny to work for 48 hrs per week. She asked to be paid more for this time increase, at which point we raised her salary to 600 (net)

If calculated hourly, keeping the Gross at £18.25 then Net Weekly for 48 hours increases to £638

So she may be seeing 600 net as not being so great. However her gross hourly rate is so high to start with, she's got to realise that at some point things become unaffordable for the employer.

So 600 net for 48 hours (£17 gross per hour 2010/11, £16.89 per hour, I think, from April 2011) is what you feel you can afford to pay. It's therefore up to her to decide if she wishes to accept that, or leave the employment.

returning to a 40 hr week as of May.

I think that takes it to £20.26 per hour Gross. Not totally sure, as not sure the tax calculator I'm using is doing the full calculation with the 2011/12 tax code yet.

So lets backtrack a bit... you were paying £18.25 gross per hour, for 40 hours. From May 2011 you will pay £20.26 gross per hour.

So that's an 11% rise.

She has come back to us very upset

Unless my figures are wrong (they might be, has anyone else concluded the same?) then it's an 11% rise come May and she's upset

I just can't believe I am going to have to fire her!

I don't think you can. What you are doing is changing the terms of the contract. She can accept the new terms or not. If she chooses not to do so, then you give notice under the terms of contract and she leaves (either immediately with pay in lieu of notice, or she works during the notice period).

That is perhaps what you meant by "have to fire her"

When did you hire this nanny (this may be important if you do decide to end the contract)?

Ignore that one... silly me. Your son is 10 months old... so the nanny won't have worked for you for a long time

To the nannies on here who say you should talk about a gross wage, rather than net, do you talk about gross when you go to job interviews? I ask because every nanny I have ever interviewed has stated their wage demand in terms of net. When I have tried to turn the conversation to gross they have said they have no idea what their gross wage should be as long as they are taking home £x an hour. Is that not normal?

wow! :O

Artichokes i always discuss in gross terms.... it doesnt help that many agencies advertise jobs in net terms.

PS im a nanny :) im in north london and i get paid £12ph gross for share, and £10ph gross for one family. i have 3.5 years exp

Artichokes>To the nannies on here who say you should talk about a gross wage, rather than net, do you talk about gross when you go to job interviews?

Yes I would. Just looked back at e-mail correspondence (early 2008) with agency who placed me in my current job and the job ad was Gross Annual but in the Job Spec document it gives both Net per day and Annual Gross. The agency now puts both Gross and typical net figure on their website.

they have said they have no idea what their gross wage should be as long as they are taking home £x an hour. Is that not normal?

Exactly what I am trying to establish on the other thread. Possibly better to take the Net v Gross aspect of this discussion over to that thread.

I do talk in the terms of 'I expect the gross of £10 net an hour'. I'm on net at the moment, have been in the same position for quite long and at that time it was always net contract, but looking for gross from now on. Hope this helps.

Thank you all so much for your input.

Re: the discussion of net vs gross pay....the agency always spoke to me in net terms and it was up to me to go to nannytax and figure out the terms in gross. Same for the interviews, nannies always stated their pay in net terms.

It's all very confusing!

Our nanny has been working for us for almost four months, so she is beyond the trial period. I am about to review the contract but I think I remember we had to give her one month's notice which I think is completely fair.

She is coming over tomorrow to talk as the last I heard of her (friday) she had left our house slamming the door saying that she wouldn't work past the £600 (net) mark at a £13.50 an hr rate....

I cringe as I write all this because the situation really sounds that much worse in print. I truly feel as though we have been taken advantage of and she really did have me believing for a second that we were exploiting with such a salary.

As first time parents we have very much learned our lesson.

Thank you again....one can always rely on mumsnet!

the agency always spoke to me in net terms
Yep, that supports my theory that it's the agencies who need to change.
nannies always stated their pay in net terms
However the nannies were provided by the agency, so the agency had told them that it would be net pay I suspect.

If agencies start doing all jobs as Gross, then with luck nannies will use Gross as well. Least that's my theory on things.
As you say, it's confusing for Employers, so makes sense I feel for everyone to use just Gross figures.

up to me to go to nannytax
You mean to use any one of many nanny payroll companies, many of whom provide the basic functions of payroll administrator. Somewhere on here we have a list of many of the companies.

Out of interest, did the payroll company you use tell you pros and cons of agreeing a Net wage?

Having been with you for 4 months she is likely to be out of probation, so yes the contract may well say it's a month notice on both sides to terminate the agreement. So if she won't accept the revised conditions then the option I feel would be to give her notice and find someone else. Not an ideal situation as she has got to know you and your son but children do adapt quite well to a new carer. Would also not be that good for her either, as then she's back job hunting again!

One can always rely on mumsnet!

By posting on here you get to chat with parents who employ nannies, nannies themselves plus other people who just happen to like commenting on your message thread. expect you will be visiting here for many years to come.

Tell her that you have been talking to other families who employ experienced nannies with great work ethic. And they all said that they are paying their nanny £10 net per hour (£13-14 gross). And I think we are paying you way too much, even then you are not happy. So therefore, we are giving you your month notice. Bye byeee

Oh I sooo would like to do this if I come across with greedy!!!

Your nanny slamming the door is utterly unacceptable, it's very rude and destroys all the confidence you have in her. You need to have a serious chat about the money and her behaviour. Good luck.