Whistleblowing

[PrivatePoster]

I've namechanged for this because I'd like to keep my mumsnet anoniminity.

This weekend I'll be delivering a presentation on Whistleblowing for an NCMA regional forum.

What I'd like to know is...

Have you ever Whistleblown on another childminder or other professional?

And have you ever opted not to report someone you know you should have and why?

Many thanks in advance.

Hi PP

I have reported an unregistered childminder 4 times over the last two years. Nothing has ever been done, except a letter being sent by ofsted to the 'childminder' about how to become registered.

TBH I won't ever bother again - I was seriously worried about the safety of the children (2yo being allowed to play outside unsupervised) I put myself in a difficult situation, as I only live in a very small village. But as I saidd nothing was ever done.

I'm afraid I agree with Booh

Sad isn't it KatyMac - I see the 'childminder' every single day, and to top it off I just lost a prospective parent to them.....well I can't be £25 for a ten hour day.

Yes I've reported 2 Minders.

1, I saw hit a child, she also had 6 under 5's with her.

2, I saw 2 under 5's left in a car while the minder did the school run. I timed her, and she was 24 minutes.

Both are still minding, and both I wouldn't leave a goldfish with.

BradfordMum - do you live in Bradford? I used too.

Thanks for the feedback.

It's so sad that despite childminders risking their own livelihoods to do the right thing there still seems to be so little action taken.

I would just like to chip in my two-pence worth, in case it is useful. I used to work for Ofsted in an area related to whistleblowing/complaint investigation. Name changed for obvious reasons!

As you will all be aware, Ofsted is a regulator. They are responsible for getting CMs and others to maintain the legal requirements and inspecting to assess the standards of care being provided. Whistleblowing and complaints can be useful ways of prompting investigations in certain areas, but unlike what many parents and disgruntled neighbours think, they do not have a ?complaint service?. They will not find in favour of one side in an argument or rule that one party should apologise/compensate the other somehow ? and you would be surprised how many parents ring up with fees and contractual issues, only to be told that this is outside Ofsted?s remit, and suddenly bring up ?oh, so-and-so smacked my child too/locked them in a cupboard/never changed a nappy/fed them only wotsits?. We also got a lot of disputes with neighbours over parking, family problems with ex?s, MILs and goodness knows who else, and lots of convoluted facebook photos/threats issues! None of that is what a publicly-funded professional regulator is really there for. I know that this isn?t exactly on topic, but I just wanted to mention it and get that little rant off my chest?

In practice it is very difficult for Ofsted inspectors to prove a lot of what people ring them up about. The unregistered minding one is a classic. It can?t have escaped your notice that there is a not-inconsiderable amount of benefit fraud going on around the country, and this is because it can be quite difficult to prove exactly what someone is doing, earning and claiming unless you follow them around 24/7 for a few weeks and can see through suspicious brown envelopes to work out what cash is in them! Unregistered minding has the same problems. 99% of the time Ofsted know that children are there, but all someone has to do is deny that they are accepting any money for their care and then that brings them outside of the requirement to register conditions. It might seem a little odd that someone without an obvious source of income is voluntarily looking after two or three or more pre-school age kids full time entirely for nothing, but I am sure a few people may do it from the goodness of their hearts and that means you can?t reasonably say ?that?s bollocks ? how much are you getting?? If the parents also deny handing over any cash then that is that. If concerns are repeatedly raised and there are also safeguarding concerns or other worries then inspectors might ultimately be able to do some uncovered observation (surveillance powers are very tightly controlled and you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get permission to do it), but again all that shows is that children are being cared for ? unless they see cash changing hands, how can they prove it?

If something is obviously, physically wrong then inspectors can pounce and hold up the proof ? a child with a giant red handprint on their face, a childminder over the drink-drive limit when the police stop them on the way back from the school run, or a half-completed attendance register (this is why paperwork/policies are boringly often picked up when the real concerns can?t be proven ? they either exist and are properly completed or they?re not!). Inspectors really don?t want to let the awful childminders continue after they?ve left children behind on a trip to the park, left them unsupervised in cars for half an hour while they do shopping or have been seen force feeding, smacking and generally neglecting children at a toddler group. But if there is little or no evidence and the person sticks to their guns and denies everything, the law doesn?t give a whole lot of scope for cancelling them. It costs a ridiculous amount of money to get to the point of a disputed cancellation hearing at the social care chamber, and the legal team can only justify spending all that public money if there is solid evidence and a reasonable chance of success.

Despite that I would always encourage anyone with concerns about any form of registered childcare to contact Ofsted. If you can do it and provide your name/details then that gives more weight and they can ring you back or contact you if they need more information; specify that you do not want your details disclosed to the person the concerns are about if you fear recrimination (that?s the default position anyway but it always helps to be sure!). Not adding things like ?she?s my ex-wife and won?t give me custody?, ?she?s been giving me evils and making threats on facebook?, ?all those noisy kids next door are always doing my head in? or ?I owe two month?s fees and she says she?ll take me to court if I don?t pay? also help to increase the credibility of the concerns you?re raising.

I have reported a childminder - twice.
Once because of the way she treated the children out in public - screaming and shouting at them, berating and humiliating them, name calling, dragging them around and so on.

the next time because her adult daughter admitted to me that they 'hit the children'.

Both times ofsted took the details
both times they could 'find no evidence' - they had visited and the minder denied in the first instance

in the second incident - - just the daughter telling me was 'second hand information' - ofsted tried several times to see the minder - they eventually gave up and passed it onto local social services who eventually gave up and passed it onto the DO who then batted it back up the chain to Ofsted - who 'could find no evidence'

I was fuming.

I know all this because... I do.

Would I report again - damned right
Do I know that its more than likely nothing would happen - damned right

Thanks. This is all really helpful.

jannamechanger, your post makes me feel really frustrated. I fully understand what you say and sometimes cringe when people on MN immediately say "report her to OFSTED" for matters obviously not required to be dealt with by OFSTED.

But when one of my past inspectors, made a point in my report that I didn't record the time of medication correctly (I put noon, instead of 12pm, she was really looking for something negative), and I hear what minders go through with inspections etc, it seems as we are registered already and trying to do our best, we get hit harder. Maybe more resources should be put into chasing people who aren't registered otherwise more will do it illegally if it isn't stopped

The line between registered & unregistered blurred following the reciprocal childcare case plus there is a childminder a few villages away who is known for overminding. OFSTED visit fairly regularly (she seems to get notice) dumps all her spare children with no notice & gets away with it.

I get frantic phone calls from the dumped families which I try & fit in, then 18m later it happens again.

Umm should OFSTED not realise 'once' is by accident, more than 'once' is intent.

But she is registered so everything is OK

Yes I'm from Bradford!

Ooo, I might know you .

Report to the parents if you see a child been hit, shouted at, humiliated, etc..even if you have to wait for them at the minders door step. If they decide not to believe in you, well at least you warned...

I have a pretty worrying story, I am a nanny and have been for over 20 years, I am also a mother, I realised during my work that I was coming across some very bad nannies, now what parents may class as a bad nanny can be different.

I found I worked with very high standards and soon became aware that over half of the nannies in the wealthy area I was working in were not good at all. When I eventually had my own child I became so protective of anyone being left with her that I decided I was only returning to work if I could take her with me, to this day I mix socially with a limited number of nannies as I have witnessed things I do not like.

I started up my own childcare business as I was concerned about the standards of childcare around, at first I decided to start up a nanny agency as I felt I may be able to have some say in the standard of childcare that was out their, but when I looked into what is involved in running an agency I stopped.

Basically anyone can open a nanny agency, their are no regulations at all, in fact the agency you go to could be owned by a dodgy person. As long as an individual has the money to put into a flash website, fancy advertising and maybe the rent of a building that?s it, what is it they say, money talks.

I found their are specific places to go to regarding being advertised as an agency, but from what I found to have these logo's places on your agency web site or to be included in guides, all you do is either pay a fee to the company or have placed at least 3 nannies in 6 months, no checks are made though on the agencies themselves.

All a nanny agency is, is a database of names and address's, now another worrying side is, non of the parents are visited either, so technically these agencies are sending young girls out to total strangers with no evidence of who they are, even a family may not be who they say.

All a nanny agency does is interview an individual, ask them to bring an up to date CV, CRB, First Aid and optional is Ofsted certification, they look and photo copy a passport, driving licence, keep 2 passport photos and ask to see two house hold bills, they then call 2 references; something any parent could do, but agencies do have the interest in getting a fee of up to £1000 from a parent so they are very eager to place a nanny with a family.

More and more parents are using external avenues of finding nannies, not only because it gives them piece of mind that they are doing the job themselves but also the fees involved with agencies.

I came across many nannies I would not leave my child with, it was only when I witnessed a nanny controlling a child in a way I felt was totally unacceptable that I have investigated this. I contacted a nanny agency recognised as one of the best, they advised that their is nothing they can do and that their is no avenue to call to whistle blow, so I felt what can I do.

I did not want to be associated with agencies that had these nannies on their registers so to begin with I started up my own business. I put myself threw all the security inspections such as Ofsted, first aid and this is the best thing, I registered as a childminder and did the training so that I was covered that way, I have actually had a personal home visit by Ofsted, I even have a portfolio of policies, permissions and all documentation requested for use as a childminder including food hygiene. I work as a nanny/home carer in the parent?s home but am totally cleared.

My advise is, go on your first impression, ask the nanny questions about how she works, watch her first impression with your child on an interview, a nany must love children and it must be a vocation as well as a job. Please realise nurseries are a similar scare, young inexperienced low paid staff are employed in them, some are unhappy as the pay is so low, I spent two weeks in one to self settle my daughter and had a bad experience with another as she was so unhappy, eventually my child did not start until I found a good pre school at age 3 when she could talk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have found Ofsted to be of little help in reporting bad childcare. They question the individual or company and of course anyone can talk themselves out of a situation. Your only option is the social sevices.

Yes, I have complained to Ofsted about a nursery where I worked.
I had serious issues with some of the practices and had tried to raise some with the management but was just fobbed off.
So I emailed Ofsted, gave them my name and address but asked them not to pass on my details to my employer for fear of being sacked or treated less favourably.
My complaint was investigated and appears on the ofsted website. It gave the management the kick up the bum they needed.
I would do it again.

I reported a member of staff in my sons old nursery (he is 10 now) to Ofsted.
I guess it is not the same as whistleblowing if it is a parent doing it, but in my experience it seems to work if the nursery in question is ofsted regulated and has to adhere by their rules.

I came to pick up my son, and was surprised to see that all the nursery staff ran into different rooms like scared mice when I came to pick up my son, except for one. She admitted that she had hit my son (just turned 4) across the head with a wooden brio train garage to "teach him it is wrong to hit".
He had a bruised bump and was very distressed.

I kept him away from nursery for a week, as I did not know what to do. No point finding a new nursery as he was going to reception after the holidays, and he really only had a month left. I also had a 1 year old in this nursery.

I had a meeting with the nursery manager, who defended her member of staff, saying it was really "out of character"
She asked that I bring my son in so that the worker could apologize properly to him.

It transpired that there was a culture of "I will do what you do wrong to teach you how wrong it is". Like, the garden was backing onto railway lines, down a slope. You could look at the trains through a tall fence. To teach the children not to throw toys, the staff used to throw toys down to the railway lines, to "show the children how upsetting it is when toys are thrown"

Anyway, I called Ofsted about the incident with the train garage.
They must have done something, because the manager at the nursery was suddenly very forthcoming, and called me into another meeting to assure me that all the staff would all receive more training. She suspended the worker in question for my sons remaining month.

I did. I don't want to give too many details. I reported a nursery to Children's services (social services) I was advising, because of safeguarding concerns about a particular child. As a result of this I was treated incredibly badly by others working in the nursery. I was ignored, bad mouthed, insulted etc. because my colleagues felt I had overstepped my position, and was questioning their response to what I saw as a genuine safeguarding concern. Luckily, my manager outside the nursery fully supported my position. In the end, Children's services took action and we were also visited by someone from the safeguarding board to review the child's files. My position and actions were found to be completely correct. The nursery manager was reprimanded, both over the way I had been treated, as well as her lack of action over a serious safeguarding concern. The whole nursery received additional safeguarding training.

I am a confident, experienced professional in the industry who was not prepared to back down over my concerns. However, had been either less confident or less experienced, I suspect I would have backed down in the face of some vile behaviour by my colleagues, and a child may well have been in great danger as a result.

Sorry, 3rd sentence makes no sense. should say that I was working as an adviser in a nursery and I reported an incident to Children's Services.

jannamechanger That was a really interesting post.

I am a childminder and have been for the past 9 years, Im also a qualified and experienced Nanny.
I have often wondered why you hardly ever hear of a childminder being 'struck off' and now I understand.

Where I live there are some truely awful childminders, I know as I work with them daily. I feel so so sorry for some of the mindees and have made myself very unpopular locally for voicing this.

Personally I feel that a person being able to display excellent paperwork, eyfs framework and child observations (which incidentally can be false or rigged) and then being able to 'play the part' in front of the inspector does not make them a great childminder.

I gained an Outstanding on my last inspection. I am in no way outstanding but I did spend a vast amount of time producing professional paperwork for my inspection which totally wow-ed my inspector.
Im am though a really good, loving and fun childminder but this seemed of secondary importance to my inspector

Wrt the op, I have been reported to Ofsted in the past, I wasn't guilty of what I had been accused of and luckily was able to prove it.

But I wouldn't report a fellow childminder as, apart from the fact that I know nothing will be done about it, I feel that expressing my concerns to the childminder in question raises her awareness that someone knows what is going on and hopefully will make her think twice about her behaviour.

I reported a Norlander to my boss (friends with hers). My boss told her friend exactly what I had said had taken place. Her reply was ah well she's only temporary

Despite the fact the child had been man-handled, thrown in a corner banging him against the wall, called every swear name under the sun, smacked hard etc etc, the list goes on. She never even reported this to Norland college. Was a long time ago, I was younger then and new no better, but, if I could turn back the clock I would have called them myself.

*knew

mummynanny
You are so right in what you are saying. I'm a nanny and have had experiences with being sent to some families that surely should have been vetted themselves. I think that agencies should meet them. I also do policies etc like a childminder, I have had an ofsted visit while I've been doing them and she said that is what a nanny should be doing anyway. I'm an older nanny also and seen things in nurseries while temping that I have not liked, and not singling out but a lot of younger members don't talk to the children very well. I'm glad someone sees things like I do, and hope that the system gets improved some how.

mummynanny.... i could have written your thread

I too have over 20 years experience, am qualified, have worked as a nanny, maternity nurse and now childminding.

The behaviour that I have seen from other "professional" childcarers (both nannies and childminders) is shocking! My own 3 children were never left with either.... my husband or I looked after them ourselves.

I would have no hesitation in reporting to ofsted or social services if I thought that a child was "at risk" from someone