First Aid Training

[nannynick]

Anyone else on a First Aid course this week?

I'm currently posting from Weybridge, not the usual venue for First Aid courses as there is a St Johns nearer to home but alas they were not running a course this month or next month.

Think I've been doing these courses for the past 21 years. They do change a bit from time to time.

No. Just booked mine for May.

I will add things on here from the course that people may not have heard about.

COSHH datasheets - we should have a file of datasheets for chemical products used at our place of work (including childminders and nannies). Datasheets are available from the manufacturers websites, or via their helpline phone number.
Concentrate on getting datasheets for things children are more likely to come into contact with such as washing up liquid, washing tablets, dishwasher liquid/tablets/powder, shampoo. Also for things like Bleech, toilet cleaner, oven cleaner.

By having those in a file, if a child has an accident involving a chemical, you can quickly find out the correct procedure - flushing an eye splashed with a chemical with water, is not always the right thing as some chemicals will react with water.

Nannies should have an accident book which is separate to the daily diary.

Is that the law Nick as I know loads of nannies that do not have an accident book.

Not sure about the law for Nannies but it may be required for your PL insurance if you have this.

I doubt there is any law for covering nannies. Health & Safety at Work Act would apply, as it's a place of work, so that would cover reporting of accidents, though not sure it stipulates exactly how things are recorded.
Having a separate accident book I expect is more to do with the records needing to be kept until the child is 21yrs3mths.

Yes I do have insurance but have always put that sort of thing in normal diary. So i do not need to have a seperate book thats good.

I've used the diary for it as well, which I suspect is quite common in nannying. Though a separate book is better, as that is then YOUR record. Think that's the point - at a later date the child could sue you personally if say they had a scar which resulted in them not then being a supermodel.

I think I will carry on as I am. I think this whole nannying and childminding has far too much paper work. I have only had insurance for the last year and only kept a diary in my current job. If it carries on as it is going I will give up nannying it is really changeing and not for the better.

Got mine next month so will ask more about those extras as not heard of that. Cheers Nick

Nannying is changing in response to attitudes changing in society.

In many ways the changes are positive for nannies (in terms of protection) but it does require adapting the way you do things. One could choose not to, but then that's taking a big risk and I can't afford the lawsuits! If a child sues me years later I don't want to risk my insurance being invalidated so I do things by the book. Doesn't take 5 minutes to write it down, get it signed and file it with your insurance documents.

I do not think it is taking a big risk. Cannot think what the positives are either.

Re COSHH substances - childminders maybe, but totally impractical for nannies - they don't know if the parents have bought a different brand of toilet cleaner. Also where retail products are involved, the packaging must clearly show actions to take or avoid in the case of an incident so a file of datasheets is neither necessary nor useful (because it will cause delay, or even worse you could refer to the wrong sheet in a stressful situation).

In my experience, Health and Safety trainers can sometimes give their own opinions and make incorrect assumptions about Best Practice in a given situation.

As for an accident book, you have to comply with the requirements of your Ofsted registration and should also comply with anything set out in your insurance (although you might find that they say you must notify them of every accident, which is obviously impractical!).

Not a big risk not doing things by the book for your insurance? Given the time limit for a child to bring a suit against you relying on parents to keep the diary is a big risk IMO!

These days not having insurance is an even bigger risk than it used to be. Parents know it exists now and it's only a matter of time before there's a big claim against someone who doesn't have it.

I'll agree the hazardous substances guidelines are OTT but the principle is sound. One doesn't need the exact brands but a sheet of the active/harmful ingredients in each and the correct treatment procedures could be helpful.

I will read my insurance policy and see if you have to do this and then inform all the nannies I know.

IMO there is a one in a million chance of this happening not a big risk at all, as I have never heard of a nanny keeping an accident book.

Therein lies the difference between risk as in the chances if it happening and risk the outcome. Risk is based on likelihood of something happening AND potential consequences. Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean it's a small risk to take. It's like when you risk assess anything. The likelihood if a child being abducted if you leave them sleeping in a hotel room is relatively small, the consequences are huge so it's a big risk to leave them. On the other hand the consequences of a child scribbling on the leather sofa with their felt tips are relatively small (you have to clean the sofa) but the likelihood is high so leaving a child alone with felt tips is also taking a big risk.

Small likelihood, huge consequences = big risk

One in a million chance of it happening, million pound settlement for damages = still a million.

Whilst your insurer may not specify an accident book they may require you to keep a record, which means you keeping a record and not writing it in the diary because that's the parents' record.

And as for not hearing of a nanny maintaining a personal accident log - you have now! Possibly two...

Are you really going to keep the accident book for twenty years? Would an accident book actually make any difference? I will ring my ex boss who is a solicitor and found out about this. I cannot find anything in m y policy but will ring them tomorrow. I would have thought ofsted would have brought it up unless it is a new thing. I think nannying was a lot easier when ofsted was not involved to be honest.

I think nannying was a lot easier when ofsted was not involved to be honest

ditto - thank god im not ofsted registered

sure if you are you have to have a book,my friend got inspected and was asked if she had one - and she did, but nothing in it as been no accidents - got it from whs for about £2

I will keep mine until each child reaches 22 along with the insurance policy for that time.

A child has 3 years from reaching their majority (18) to file a claim. It's stored along with other stuff that needs to be kept in a file, a plastic wallet for each year that it can be destroyed.

Nannying was easier before OFSTED because there was more choice but tbh I've always had insurance, kept accident records, had blanket consent letters etc. I work with a lot of paperwork - my contract is I think 7 pages long? - but people not doing that effectively paid my school fees growing up (father was a lawyer!).

Also I think with nannies OFSTED make it up as they go along sometimes. It's remarkably half-baked. Some nannies are told their level 3 isn't common core compliant because it's too old, others get registered without having any, they're inconsistent about 1st Aid, nannies who registered in 2007 aren't having their CRBs renewed despite OFSTED saying 3 years...

My policy for dealing with them has always been get Amy question answered in writing twice!

geez, the world has gone mad!!!! shall be looking into this tomo, as ofsted registered
and have never heard of this for Nannys but have for other settings!! When I was studying My nvq3 had my assesor come into the home where i worked and she asked where i wrote about any accidents, I showed her the dairy, which she said was fine and signed it off on the sheet!!!Was a few years ago so perhaps have changed since then!!!

I wouldn't say it's gone mad as such - people are just quicker to sue, which has resulted in tighter safety regulations and most insurance companies look for any excuse to avoid paying out, so I personally err in the side of caution.

Why should nannies be any different to other settings in terms of meeting safety/insurance requirements anyway? If anything we're a riskier prospect 'because we're so unregulated. Whilst the vast majority of nannies are very conscientious and sensible, and the vast majority of parents not litigious it only takes one incident to scare people or make them wonder whether they can get compensation. No-win, no-fee makes it easy to at least try...

It has gone mad!!! following the USA in lets sue for anything!! we used to play in the play ground when it snowed, can't do that anymore!!! I never said Nannies should be different!! just that as I haven't heard of it before that I would look into it!!
Agree that it just takes one incident.
But really the law should be that if the parents don't take action immediatly after it has happened then the grown up children can't complain/sue many years later!!!

Can anyone recommend a multi-part accident book, so that two copies are made of each report - one for the parents, one for me to keep in a file?

On the course we were told we could have a multi-part book, thus producing a carbon copy for records.
Also we were told to never scribble something out, if a mistake is made, cross it out, date it and initial it. That way harder for a barrister later on to challenge that something was altered at a later date.

But the law reflects the fact that the damage is to the child, not the parents. It's impossible to tell whether an injury sustained at the age of 2 will prevent them becoming a pro footballer later. That can only reasonably show up at 18 or so and the statute of limitations on personal injury is 3 years. It's possible to sue earlier on the child's behalf, for example if negligence caused a serious injury requiring lifelong care, but some things just won't make their true effects known until later on.

And actually the UK had a history of litigation well before the US, the US just has a legal system which allows unrelated precedents to be given more weight so in effect it's easier to sue. Plus whereas all hospital treatment for an injury in the UK is free, in the US you either gave to claim on your insurance which puts your premium up or pay out if your own pocket which many people can't afford so that's another reason see why taking up legal proceedings is more common.

Not playing outside when it snows is an example of health and safety gone mad though - any balanced risk assessment should show that proper precautions bring the risk down to acceptable levels.